How the Jedi Lost Their Meaning

So you're saying that Star Wars will pay the price for its lack of vision? :p

Going beyond Star Wars specifically, I think you touched on something which is permeating our culture in its entirety: there's this wretching nostalgia, this attempt to lock the past into stasis, this fear of the future. It's not only infected our media but also our politics: Star Wars refuses to move on; LotR and GoT are only interested in prequels; Marvel has stagnated; America constantly tries to bring back "the gold old days"; Russia dreams of being the sprawling empire of the days of the Czar; the UK never recovered from the dissolution of its own empire and seems like little more than a bickering state obsessed with the past; China yearns for the days where it seemed like it was the most advanced state in the known world. But there's no getting the past back, and trying so desperately to recover what was "lost" is such a waste of both the present and the future.

I dunno, man. It seems like it's everywhere. And maybe I'm just projecting because I feel like I have a particular sensitivity to this--I've transistioned out of my 20s into my 30s, and many of my friendship (and one particular relationship) ended during that transition--and I can't help but feel like the main factor in those endings is that I wanted to move on from being a guy in college and a guy in his 20s and they didn't. I know I made the right choice for me, but there's so many people I've met in this phase of my life who've just... stopped growing. And they're so afraid of the foreboding new.

In "The Force Awakens", I remembered being awed by the imagery of the decayed Star Destroyer crashed on Not-Tatooine (it was called Jagoo or something?) and laughing when Rey and Finn called the Milennium Falcon a piece of junk. The characters' irreverance and the grave of the past was really interesting to me. And I remember being so disappointed when the First Order was basically the Empire again, especially in aesthetic--and Han was still a shlubby smugger--Leia was still the hen-pecked diplomat--and Luke was... idk, sitting on an island, I guess. And then the movie became about blowing up the Death Star again. It seemed like such a waste of an opportunity to tell a story about picking up the pieces and moving on.

Idk man, nostalgia really is the opium of the modern world and I sincerely hope we can commit to moving on at some point.

Star Wars is Mythical. Period! The scene that moved me the most is from the very first film in 1977. The scene of Obi Wons sacrificial death had a profound effect upon my young mind and the nature of reality. It awakend a deeper connection of the mysteries and wonders of this world. Thats what Star Wars and all great myths do.

The Jedi were always a problem from a dramatic point of view as main characters. According to their code the very emotions and passions and ambitions which comprise a good heroic main character are things a Jedi is not supposed to have.

Nice take on the issue of the Jedi. Personally, I would put more "blame" on the prequels for the "politics complicated by idealism" than you do and think that TLJ had an (not necessarily THE) answer to the problem of depiction: Make the politics the obstacle (Luke struggles with the legacy of the Jedi as an institution and the individual failures of its members, including himself) and the idealism/myth the solution. After all, we as the audience and the people in universe ultimately get the mythical Jedi master who faces down the whole first order.

There are a million stories that could be told in the Star Wars universe. But in practice, (nearly) every Star Wars property is handicapped by the fact that what they actually feel the need to do is center a Jedi/Sith conflict in every single property. Jedis are generally supposed to be exceedingly rare in the universe, but you would never know that from watching any given Star Wars property. :/

To be fair, "The Acolyte" was teasing out some very interesting complexities about the Jedi Order, including its structure, beliefs and dogmas, and - indeed - its failures and foibles. One of the clear themes of the show is that the Jedi are not a force (no pun intended) for objective and empirical good. These criticisms were also teased out in "The Last Jedi." We need a great Disney+ series that explores the complexities and failures of the Jedi.

KOTOR 2 has the best treatment of the concept of light and dark side in the character of Darth Treya. In that game, deconstruction is about how mortal or material ethics do not align with the transcendent Force to the degree that manipulation of the Force by morally bound individuals will always produce chaos, disruption and pain. Treya therefore seeks to eliminate the cultivation of force sensitivity altogether. Worth looking into.

If you're juxtaposing The Least Jedi as an example of Jedi as mythical, you're doing it wrong.

Lol….false binary. It’s “mythic” when it’s character and plots familiar to you. It’s “political” when it’s characters and plot that you are uncomfortable with and don’t fit your bias. Of course the Jedi are a thin concept. It’s a movie. Sigh…so sad.

Long story, short: it’s the talent. Disney has amassed a slew of mediocre talent to helm these films.

I loved Rogue One and Andor but it’s a serious problem when that IP is the best thing that they’ve put out. Mando started out good but then faded.

LSOO What you’re describing is the Gnostic Dualism (subjective-Objective) Collapse.
Due to this collapse Jedi have no identity because there’s no more dualism between “light” and “dark”.
You are correct that the root of this is actually in the prequels, because like all “stories of old” these ideas are battling out in all our minds.
“On earth as it is in heaven.”

Disney Star Wars isn’t Star Wars. That’s what’s killing the Jedi

Saying Star Wars wasn't political is a fucking lie of the highest order. Gross.

I actually like the tension we have seen so far. IMO, both versions of the jedi are kind of inescapable and need to be addressed for holistic storytelling. They are both fully idealistic and fully political and these things are largely in conflict.

They aren't just talking about balance; they actually do have to maintain balance on a razor's edge.

A fully ideal jedi probably would never take on the role of hero, peacekeeper, or law enforcement. They would be more like hermits avoiding society seeking enlightenment and rejecting cries for help because all good and evil are the will of the Force and those who die become one with the Force.

A fully political jedi must abandon enlightenment to focus on shaping the galaxy towards their ideals and is in danger of following the ways of the Sith.

True Jedi as we think of them must compromise both.

I loved how Kenobi was a story about Obi Wan's own crisis of faith in regards to jedi ideals.

Wait what? What decade is this, and why are people even talking about SW anymore? Did Disney suddenly become competent enough for people to care about their stories besides Andor?
For the record, they deserve no credit for that, since even a broken clock is correct twice a day.

Jedi member see everything in black and white. Unfortunately...life never and never will be only black and white

Not even a video for David Lynch? Unfollowed

ive never seen the prequels and probably never will hahaahah

shout out the the pop culture detective

They were a genocide cult in a previous universe that worshipped the stars. molecular elements have memories of the last universe, they cleanse elements of evil because it was the original betrayer that used to live among them that blew up the old universe. The stronger the force, the more evil the particles were in the previous universe. Their free thought is influenced by an illusion of motive towards evil, ultimately seeing parts of themselves in their enemy.....

I love you Man! This video broke a depressive spell. Your content is cool, calming, well though out, interesting. I love it. Unfortunatly I do not know too many movies so This one was really appreciated.

I would like to add to this dialogue using a quote from Joseph Campbell about the four functions of mythology. This quote is taken from an essay of his entitled The Mythological Dimension. “The first function of a mythology is to awaken and maintain in the individual a sense of wonder and participation in the mystery of this finally inscrutable universe. The second function of a mythology is to fill every particle and quarter of the current cosmological image with its measure of this mystical import. A third function, no less important, is the sociological one of validating and maintaining whatever moral system and manner of life-customs may be peculiar to the local culture. A fourth and final, essential function of mythologies, then, is the pedagogical one conducting individuals in harmony through the passages of human life, from the stage of dependency in childhood to the responsibilities of maturity, and on to old age and the ultimate passage of the dark gate.” I think the distinction between and differentiation of mythological storytelling an sociological storytelling is an important one. I actually stopped ritualistically watching movies (one a week for around twenty years) after The Last Jedi) because it turns out mythic storytelling was the reason I watched movies in the first place and I just gave up because it seemed the people who made movies had given up on this type of storytelling.

Yay! Nebula. Another website serving up videos to distract us.

The franchise was given to people who see the world from a very different point of view and have stated so in interviews. They deliberately stepped away from the archetypes and myths that were the bedrock of the original Star Wars stories. To do so they destroyed the concepts of the Jedi, the Jedi Order, and the Force. The fans was baffled, angry, and finally apathetic. It's not possible to undo the prequel movies and spin-offs like The Acolyte. We aren't going back to heroes.

I haven't been back here in a while. So i just wanna say ... Your voice does not match your face.

To me it is a bit like we have shattered the theme (the axis along which Jedi and Sith were going back and forth on) and are now desperately trying to find a new one. Is it power in a galaxy at war? Is it the responsibility of a superwarrior? Or will it go back to control your emotions so they do not use you, fulfill your archetype as the ancestors before you and you will be a soldier for the soul of the universe?

Its because post-modernism and Disney have warped their archetype

When I think of a Jedi and the Force I think BIBLICAL. A Jedi Master is a Grand and heroic mythologic being who has the ability to commune and harness a power that we mere mortals can't comprehend. Think Noah or Muhammed or Moses. Effing Yoda, man, The Jedi Knights are like the knights of the round table or the Knights Templar... epic warriors who fight for for a grand cause. When Obi Wan in a New Hope tells Luke about the Jedi it's with a reverence that is almost religious. The modern Jedi has become so diluted I don't think Disney even knows what they are.

Not seen the Nebula video, however I do think the Jedi games managed to crack this exact issue you brought up.
In Fallen Order the mission is to reconnect with the teachings and spirituality of the classical trilogy. That being the jedi as paragons basically ,who were betrayed, slaughtered and exiled. In Survivor though, we see the protagonist, Cal making the same mistake as the jedi in the prequels did, involving himself in "A cause" and basically rendering himself into a weapon of the material world, which his order should never have been. Throughout the story Cal suffers the consequences of this mentality but by the end also manages to realise the limitations and faults of the original order. The faults of the dogma that bound the Jedi and bred the arrogance, that led to their downfall. It is implied that with Cal the rules will be reset somewhat in the future.
I would be interested how Respawn's take on the jedi fixes or complicates this paradox that Disney faces. It is a fascinating piece of lore how the spiritual peacekeepers surrendered themselves over to political power and began strong-arming for their own benefit.

Great video as always

I think we need to stop running away from the hero and villain binary, as if that is a big social no-no to construct stories around people who are anything other than “complex” and “nuanced”. Every good guy has to be flawed and every bad guy must be redeemable - no, they have to be interesting and serve the story. It seems “nuanced” characters just end up becoming the story and for something like Star Wars that just doesn’t work. The entire point of the Jedi binary is that the light and the dark opposed each other, and everyone else in the film universe, and even we the audience, occupied the complex space in between.

Anyone with any shred of love left for Star Wars should just stick with Legends, especially for the Jedi. From the Old Republic to Luke’s NJO they’re perfect in all their flaws and imperfections, and it’s still a joy to read their stories

I have always been very opposed to the idea that the Jedi/Sith, Light Side/Dark Side are just different factions with different ideas and power sets. I think some of that comes from the old novels and maybe the Clone Wars show; but it's definitely present in the Prequels and something Disney leaned into early on too. I remember Star Wars promos that would ask "which side are you?" They would describe the Light along the lines of being wise/selfless, while the Dark was relentless/passionate. It just seemed there was a move toward treating the Sith/Dark side as just another version of the Jedi that went about things differently.

But to me, the Dark side was always supposed to represent the worst impulses of humanity. Greed, jealousy, hatred, vengefulness. It was the amalgamation of all of our worst instincts that we can so easily fall into. Yoda even says that the Dark side is "quicker, easier ... more seductive." The Dark side wasn't just an affiliation decision ... it was an internal battle for the characters between rising above, or succumbing to, the worst parts of human nature. And it was a battle that was ongoing for our characters. Following the Light was the much more difficult choice, and that's what the Jedi represented. They were the embodiment of people who; through a lot of hard work, self-reflection, humility, empathy, and wisdom; rose above our most undesirable attributes to become better versions of themselves. People who were interested in helping others and bettering the universe around them. They were people we aspired to be more like. I get the allure of deconstructing the Jedi institution from a story standpoint, but by bringing them down to our level it robs them of their magic and aspirational nature and just makes them another faction in the story for the audience.

It feels like some of the recent attempts to try to deconstruct the Superman mythos, and bring his character down to a "realistic" level. The problem is that the aspirational/inspirational nature of Superman is so much of what makes that character/mythos work. Superman, like the Jedi, is meant to be a goal for us to strive toward. And neither works as well from a narrative or thematic standpoint when you take that aspect away simply for the sake of "drama."

If the story went with the comics and books, it would be a completely different story and video here. Disney really messed up Star Wars.

Bit late but I always thought that argument about the jedi mistreating anakin showing they had "lost their way" didn't really hold any weight. At what point in the prequels did anakin not come across has a whiny, petulent entitled brat? And taking on the responsibility of war generals in a time of the Republic's need is somehow portrayed as a moral error? The Jedi literally did nothing wrong...

The problem is mythological storytelling is hard because it means you have to commit to what is evil and what is good. But modern storytellers (and modern folks in general) don't want to do that. They'd rather live in the gray because it's not staking any claim on morality.

Nuanced, subversive storytelling is good and important. But mythological fairytales aren't supposed to be nuanced or subversive, but bold, powerful, and universal

Corrupt executivea and writers don't know how to write characters with good values and wind up messing things up.

Same Thing for new Star Trek

This problem is the problem facing most cinema and storytelling today. We have disenchanted the world with technique. So we look for stories as entertainment and as political lessons, which are wholly inadequate for inspiring us the way Star Wars used to. (See also LOTR vs Rings of Power - the latter is a disenchanted, politicised version of the former and it’s no accident that it suffers from appalling writing as a consequence.)

Great video! You should totally read "The Light of the Jedi" novel, by Charles Soule, set in The High Republic canon. It really surprised me how sincere the story was, treating the Jedi as true heroes, but deeply flawed, in a way that kept the adventure interesting from start to end. The Star Wars books are light-years ahead in quality and nuance when compared to the live-action media set in this universe, it's really fun. Congratulations on the channel, been here since the pandemic and your writing is fantastic!

The flaws of the Jedi in the PT was a feature, not a bug. It clearly follows Joseph Campbell's "Hero With A Thousand Faces" wherein the "lived in" world has grown stale and/or defective, and through which the Hero's Journey of the "Chosen One" brings about renewal. It's the Sequel Trilogy and the anciellary D+ shows that have really muddled this very clear mythic element that Lucas presented (albeit flawed) in the PT.

Part of the problem is that in a thoroughly deconstructed world (like ours), there's very little room for things like vision, depth, inspirational heroism, etc. All there is... is the never-ending parade of cynicism, cloaked in a thin veneer of self-righteousness.

I really like creators that link their references, thank you.

For me it was the prequels that messed up the Jedi it showed them to be incompetent in not realizing who the emperor was it made them some kind of a weird loveless cult it showed them to be totally incompetent against Stormtroopers who got a slight surprise on them it showed them make stupid decisions like not killing obvious evil people like Anakin weirdos who left Anakin's mother as a slave like why didn't they go back and free her. Honestly nobody needed to know what the clone wars were it was perfect just as a mystery. Most of the Disney stuff is better than the prequels
Seriously been and Luke both exhibited and used love as a motivating force to use the force to do good

Well, Disney has already shown that it's not capable of handling the Jedi in a political sense. Straying too far from the mythic premise means that it is no longer Star Wars. Fans loved the original 3 movies for a reason. The treatment of Luke & Han in the later movies was a conscious choice to tear them down as heroes. There was no depth achieved in doing so but seemed driven by a mean spirited take to punish the core fans.

Something to examine with new vs old star war jedi stories is the role benevolent prejudice is playing into the reception to the new stuff.

Getting out of my echo chamber and examining what the less annoying anti-w ke people are angry about, it's sometimes benevolent prejudice towards women and minorities, and hostile prejudice to whoever is considered opposite of that in privilege -- which in context of star wars, an example is how Ray ends up a bit too much like a Mary Sue, too flat, in a which is harder to connect with, and the male characters being treated overall wore, less heroic, weaker, more the problem. And the cause of that is politics and ideology, a version of modern feminism /progressive that instead of being about equality, ends up hurting everyone via prioritizing "protecting" women and minorities in a such a way they're put on a pedstal/ faults are ignored ("women are wonderful effect"), which in the ends treats women and minorities as too emotionally weak /like children. E.g. these stories that are trying to examine political aspects of the Jedi end up feeling flat due to lack of awareness of their own nature that is similar to the issues they're trying to portray. .