The Retro Grouch - reaction video - does road tubeless still suck?

beards looking good george

👍

i'm considered a retro grouch / curmudgeon..... NOS Steel EM Frame, check.....10SP Campag mechanical groupset, check.....rim brakes, check....AL Mavic rims w/ hooks and tubes, check.....28mm tires, check.....frame pump, check...but i do use a Hammerhead Karoo2 for GPS navi ( no power meter tho ) and Look clipless pedals....with all that said I'm 80/20 Road to "Gravel"...and yet,....and yet......with all that, I'm still able to pass a large majority of modern road cyclists on 60-100+ mile rides, both uphill and down....go figure 😐

Hey, where is the retro grouch cycling cap?

Road tubeless does still suck depending on the situation. If you are not on 34c tires and internal rim width 25mm it sucks having a tire bleed goop all over your bike and kit when you get a solid cut or gash in a sidewall.😊

Tubeless is better,.........until it's not, get one of them nasty punctures that not even a plug won't fix and it'll be a nasty day. LOL

Exactly what people have been telling you for several years. Wider low pressure tires for tubeless. You act like you discovered it.

👍

Great video George, lots of good info, well organized and communicated.

Welcome to the dark side, George. mwahahaha, muwhahaha, muahahaha, bwahahaha. Finally!!

👍The wider tires and lower pressures being used the past few years have made tubeless a viable road option.
I stopped carrying co2 and bring a mini pump which works great for pressures under 50psi.
I have a good reason to try the TPU tubes. I’ve only had a few so far but they seem tougher than butyl tubes, weigh a lot less and pack way smaller but my reason is that keeping a dozen or so bikes set up tubeless ends up being a lot of money in sealant each year. So for some bikes I don’t ride as often I’m considering the TPU tubes as a good option.

Like everything else, when perfected and backed by data and real world experience the switch is easy , it takes me 2 mins to set up tires tubeless

Electric pump is way better. Super easy everyone on my ride just uses my electric pump now. The excuses are lame.

I ride tubeless on my Domane with Pirelli P Zero Race TLR RS's in size 30. Did 6120 miles last year and should go over 7000 miles this year. Twice last year small punctures sealed just fine. This year I think I had one that also sealed. I'm sure if I had tubes they would have punctured. I do carry two TPU tubes though in the roll that is in my downtube storage because they are very compact and light along with a plug kit. Great video. Really enjoy your casual discussion about topics like this. Feel like I'm hanging out BSing with a friend.

George it’s ok to change your ways. I ride 26mm tires on my road and track bike cuz that’s the largest that fits the frame. I’m still running Conti Race Tubes. Ive tried the RideNow TPU tubes and loved them for the small size so I could stick 2 of them or more in my saddle bags but I never had good luck with them, hit or miss at best. Always got tiny pinhole flats and I could never patch them good enough to last. If i could run 30mm+ at lower pressures I’d consider tubeless. But for now regular rubber tubes are my way to go.

I'm tubeless as well, but to me, the value add of TPU is how small they pack up. So you can either run a smaller saddle pack and/or carry more tubes in case shit hits the fan. Do I use them? Nah I'm too cheap 😅. Also, 99% of the time I ride with my Topeak MTX DXP bag, so I'm not really lacking for space. Easily 80% of my miles are going places to do things, though, so I need to carry my lock and other accoutrement.

I am an ultra low distance rider covering roughly 2000 miles a year. I also run tubeless. I carry a dinaug kit along with a TPU tube for emergencies. I carry TPU because of its small size. Not sure if that’s logical to you but it seems to be to me.

👍

Nice explanation of tubeless conversion. My local bike shop converted me to tubeless. At the moment tubeless set up is working well for me, even with the maintenance. This process has taught me how to stay on top of my bike for rides. My local bike shop has taught me so much about maintaining a bike for my safety. I love supporting them. ❤❤

I don't run tubeless on my road bike because my rims are known to be hit or miss with tubless. to the point the manufactuer stopped calling them tubeless compatible. I do run tubless 700x35 on my urban/gravel bike I commute with, and it has been trouble free and reliable riding on city streets with broken glass everwhere. I do road tubelsss setups professioanly, and I don't think road tubeless is the best solution for everyone. If you know you need it, then you probably do. For a casual rider who is going to let the bike sit a lot and tires go flat. I woudl advise against.

I have used C02 with orange seal and didn't refresh sealent for seveal weeks after so I doubt it dried up my sealent.

This one’s free for the peanut galllery: Prevent clogged valve cores by dropping some light oil in them (while not installed.) Doesn’t matter which, it can be Phil Wood Tenacious Oil. Dumonde Tech Freehub Oil, Silca Synergetic, whatever.

Yes, they suck even more

The only problem I've had with my tubeless setup is that the bead broke off once and I needed a CO2 to re-seat the tire. Tubeless and rim brakes requires you think carefully about tire pressure if you're doing long hot descents... Still works but you have to think. For the most part I don't even know my tires got punctured until I take them off to change them. Tubeless does have a learning curve. BTW, you speak clearly enough that your videos can be watched at 1.75 speed or better.

Tires after 27 mm feels slugish, better ride MTB bike

👍 with two front wheels one for road other for dirt and rear that need to switch out tires setup cannot do tubeless yet using old fashioned burtyl tubes. Need to do another rear before going tubeless that to my wheels. Alloy set for dirt.

I have ridden 7000 km with tubeless. Zero punctures so far.

The dreaded glass shard that slices your brand new tire. It's the drunk teenagers who smash the bottles. I hope they're not adults.

Hi George, great that tubeless works for you but TPU tubes are great - low rolling resistance, low weight and holds air. Also packs small in your saddle bag and can be recycled. So much better than butyl or latex.

Chinese tpu are $12 each and Amazon stocks them. Doesn’t help the LBS. but as others said, easy to carry as a spare at least. They’re lighter than the sealant so I’ve enjoyed riding with them but will consider sealant for next set of tires. Appreciate your patience to show and explain the real life differences.

👍

Ive ridden both tubeless and tubes. I went back to tubes because of the maintenance and clogged valves. Tubeless is great for dirt rides and wide tires @35c and up. Punctures is based on where you ride and what you run over. Ive had only 1 flat in 9000miles and it was a side slash that not even tubeless would have saved me. I run tpu tubes exclusively for the past 6000 miles from aliexpress and they have been flawless.

If I was getting alot more flats i would switch to tubeless but That's not the case for me.

I found the same thing on my daily driver tubeless is the choice but on my bike that I ride only occasionally I'm actually switching back to tubes because I don't want to hassle with the sealant drying up and refilling etc.

Got both TL and Tube tires; one on Vittoria latex and 25mm Michelin Power Race tires in My older Endurance Cervelo RS.
Then got in My new Giant TCR rim brakes that came stock with Giant alloy rims with Giant Gavia 25mm tubeless/sealant.
Most say both ride heavenly but tubeless set up is way grippier even on wet/moist tarmac conditions plus You get lots of road feel/feedback, all this just with basic entry level tires and rims.
With a top of the line tubeless set up on carbon rims must be an awesome way racier experience.
Am beginning to be a convert, now have to try to deal with the difference in maintenance routine.

Good video. I just prefer clinchers w/ TPUs on one of my two CAAD10s. Been running this set up for just over two years and 18k miles. No flats yet. I run Conti GP5000 tires and they wear out before I get a flat. I was running Butyls but started using RideNow TPUs (Chinese brand) since November '23. They have a nicer ride and they shaved 150 grams from my wheels. The TPUs do hold air better than butyl. I check my tires every other day and I can attest to this. I haven't had a flat yet, but the tubes have around 4,800 miles on them. Just put on my third set of tires. Also, Vittoria Corsas actually puncture easier than the Contis from my experience. However, Corsas have a nicer ride from what I remember. Now I used to use tubeless on my SWorks mountain bike I used to have. Never had an issue with them.

I respect the fact that you support your distributors. Funnily enough, RideNow are now producing their TPU tubes for at least one of the major tyre companies, that are launching their own line.

I love TPU for the ride feel, harder to puncture than butyl rubber, and easier packing in ones spares kit.

In my experience TPU tubes do not lose air, all my tubed bikes sit with 80-95psi in them for easily 2 weeks with no issue, the plastic is simply not porous.

Regarding CO2 with tubeless, apparently it’s ammonia based sealants that react with the gas. As for latex sealant the CO2 can freeze the liquid.

Wow, you sound exactly like some of my comments about your anti-tubeless vids not so long ago! I knew you'd come around sooner or later. I think the reason I've always had a good experience with tubeless and you didn't at first is because I've always run tubeless with at least 28mm tires and no more than 70psi. Nice work George!

Thanks for the info about orange seal, been using that for the last 4 years. Was cautious about using CO2, but havent punctured in the last 3,500 miles, knock on wood

So do you recommend tubeless on a road bike with 28's? I weight about 175 and the bike is 20 lbs. Probably can't fit bigger than 28s.

I'm sincerely glad tubeless has worked for you, I almost never judge others' choices, but I remain skeptical, for what I believe are good reasons. I tried tubeless for about a year but then gave up on them, even though I ride fairly wide 32mm tires. Tubeless tires are stiffer and heavier than the clincher version of the same tire series (Continental 5000), and, because of those necessarily stiffer beads, they're very nearly impossible to get off and on the rim. The sealant is disgusting. I had a roadside puncture that involved steady rain, spraying sealant, a plug that failed to plug, bloody fingernails from (again) a very stiff, stubborn tire bead, and sticky fingers and clothes from said sealant, on a wet, busy two-lane highway in rural western Washington. I'd already become disillusioned with tubeless, and this little adventure did not improve my attitude.

I've since switched to Schwalbe TPU tubes and clinchers, and this works a lot better for me. The setup is comfortable, performs at least as well as tubeless, and punctures are rare and easy to deal with. The Schwalbe tubes I use are indeed very expensive, $25, but they're patchable, and the cost of these things is a matter of perspective. Expensive compared to what? A bottle of sealant and a set of plugs aren't cheap, either. My Trek Checkpoint gravel bike that I've converted to an endurance road bike is also not cheap. The carbon wheelset with DT Swiss hubs that I indulged in is most definitely not cheap. In terms of dollars per gram, the TPU tubes are actually a bargain.

TPU is easy to repair with the correct cement and patches. Self adhesive patches are a get you home fix only.

Thanks for the video. I am with you in that I have never considered road tubeless to be a technology that was fit for the purpose. Your discussion has brought me closer to giving it a try than any other rationale that I have ever heard. I am still going to stick w/my standard clincher setup, however, who knows what the future may hold.

By the way, I have just discovered your channel (thankfully), I am a former member of the Rev Endurance squad from way back (15 years?), still living in Omaha, NE and still riding.

Ciao George. There's a wheelset I have that takes 130 psi to seat the bead. Good luck fixing something that on the road. Came across an unfortunately fellow this past weekend. He hit a 1/2" step in the pavement obliquely and burped his 35C tubeless tire. Went down hard and 911 had to come. No thank you, not even for my MTBs. If I ever feel the need for goo, I'll just put it inside the tube.

👍

I don't think there's many older steel road bikes ... 80's to 90's that are plentifully available (Lemond, Pinarello, Bianchi, etc) that have clearance for more than 25's. I think the Bridgestone bikes do, but your mileage may vary.

Normal black butyle tubes for me. You can get some lightweight ones. I like Conti GP5000 tires, not the tubeless ones. These paired up with a carbon rim, hooked, IMO is the way to go. I'm 67, have been running this system my whole life, it works for me, I have confidence in this, I race triathlons and gravel (different bike, different wheelset, different tires, but still with tubes). I'm amazed at how many people I pass on the side of the road sorting out tubeless issues. Anyways, good video, ya, I'm glad you are enjoying going tubeless.