Shadow of the Erdtree (DLC) Game of the Year Drama | Play, Watch, Listen

HA! Just from knowing we consume similar media, I know Mike is talking about Jacob Geller's video about the twist thing and yeah...I haven't got it yet but it did sell me too

SOTE was the best game to come out this year for the Bayle boss fight alone.

Steam is telling me Catalyst is similar to the Spider-Man and Miles Morales

I rebuke the argument that length or quantity of content should have anything to do with the argument of a DLC being considered. The fact that an experience is standalone is all that matters to me. Some of my favourite games ever have been 2 hour experiences. The very fundamental fact that it is an extension of an already lauded experience is disqualifying of consideration. I know people don't care but it annoys me so much. I don't even think the expansion was nearly as good as many think, so many missing cutscenes, boring empty areas, stupidly difficult end boss, mind you I still thought it was very good and a great experience but one of the best of the year? Nah. Are we going to nominate God of war Ragnarok again for the Valhalla dlc? Which I thought was far better as an expansion as it greatly enriched the base game and character. I don't think we should. There are so many incredible games that get overlooked at these showcase "award" shows that I think should have been nominated instead. Great show as always though!

I feel like the thing people should really be talking about is how a COLLECTION of 20 year old fighting games is nominated for fighting game of the year

the way Austin is just chill dude. love it!

Releasing an EP with 4 songs on it is not releasing an album, and is not eligible to a Grammy award. Erdtree is an expansion, not “DLC”. DLC means nothing. A costume in The First Descendant is DLC. And technically buying Cyberpunk digitally makes the whole game DLC because it’s been downloaded. What are we doing here? An expansion is not a game because it can’t run without an actual game. Period. A sidecar is not a car.

G'day fellow scientists!

Long time player, watcher, listener and first time commenter.

Questions for the panel;

Alanah: Researchers are encouraged to write papers through the lens of creating a narrative or having a story thread. What suggestions can you share to keep a technical narrative engaging?

Austin: Wha-

Troy: What does Norman Reedus taste like? Also, does it feel different using your likeness in a game as opposed to an animated appearance?

Mike: As a director, has your baseline knowledge of various aspects of game development increased over time and has that helped with project scoping?

Austin: It is often said video game music is designed for player focus. How true do you think this is and what techniques do you implement to achieve engagement?

Thanks for making this podcast, it's the only one I listen/watch (and play?) and it's great to chuck on while processing data (your conversations are often more intellectual than ones I have with other scientists!)

Cheers

For me if elden ring brings out dlc every year it could be nominated every year just because the base game is that good. It's not stand alone and therefore it's not a game. Elden ring is the game. Just my opinion.

If I can't purchase and play it as a standalone product I don't think it should qualify irregardless of how long or high quality it is.

Outlets like ign are reviewing games for people who view videogames as a general piece of media entertainment like a movie or netflix tv show. Their audience isn't the kind of person who watches niche gaming streams and has arguments about games in yt comments and view games as their primary or only hobby

At the end of the day TGA isn't really about who wins or loses, it's about whether or not we get an RE9 reveal!

Ok I will not wish list Tron catalyst, geez. 😅

I 100% thought that Alanah said that game had a porn system. '... What?'

What's everyone's favourite game that did not release this year. mine is kingdom come deliverance

Personally i think dlc should not be nominated for the game of the year, but i think Shadow of the Erdtree is an exception because it has much more content than some standalone games.
I loved Wukong and i think it should win something, even multiple awards, but i loved Shadow of the Erdtree a bit more, mainly because i like more souls-like combat than devil may cry-style button mashing combat and i think the invisible walls were a bit too thinght in some parts.
So i think Shadow of the Erdtree deserves game of the year...

I'm apathetic about DLC being GotY, but I don't think it should win simply because of the poor performance, reused textures and enemies, and general feeling that exploration isn't useful.
I got bored of it, trying to figure out where to go to unlock the locations only to find that I spent a ton of time looking for caves and secret passages only for it to be available later.
It's a 6/10 for me.

It’s a fun can of worms, DLC as GotY. Does this mean that a game released in January with DLC in October can have its DLC nominated instead of the game itself?
Does it mean that a DLC does not count to a game being GotY?
What is the game is bad and the DLC great, does that mean you just reward the DLC?

I don’t know why they decided to open this can of worms, but it’s interesting.

Anyway, the thing that annoys me is that they nominated FF7 Rebirth instead of Like A Dragon: Infinite Wealth.

It's not just "it's a dlc". It's also "you need the base game and to invest several hours into it to get to the dlc"
It's also not the first time, Witcher Blood and Wine was nominated
It's controversial, sure, but if it's one of the gaming's best experiences of the year, then it's kinda justified, but everything should be taken into account.

If you’re calling Black Myth Wukong a linear boss rush game then you barely played it. The first chapter is very linear. The rest of the game is way more open than most other soulslikes.

Black Myth Wukong ended up being my personal GOTY, as incredible as some other games this year have been 😊 Besides the phenomenal graphics and combat and boss fights, its method of storytelling (journal entries for all enemies and bosses, different types of cinematic animations between chapters, time traveled secret areas, etc.) felt so captivating and unique.

To your point on expecting Sekiro, Alanah, I think the only game that will outdo Sekiro is a sequel or spiritual successor by From Software. None of the games inspired by it (Wo Long, Stellar Blade, Black Myth Wukong, etc.) have quite reached its level 😅

I’m absolutely down for Dragon’s Dogma 2 being my favorite game of the year. I don’t think it deserves best game of the year on anyone’s list. I could maybe debate best action game or something like that, not GOTY. Oh well, glad to hear Alanah liked it too.

It’s a fun can of worms, DLC as GotY. Does this mean that a game released in January with DLC in October can have its DLC nominated instead of the game itself?
Does it mean that a DLC does not count to a game being GotY?
What is the game is bad and the DLC great, does that mean you just reward the DLC?

I don’t know why they decided to open this can of worms, but it’s interesting.

Anyway, the thing that annoys me is that they nominated FF7 Rebirth instead of Like A Dragon: Infinite Wealth.

Imagine if a previous year Oscar winner added a bunch of scenes, enough to double the length of the movie. Should that be eligible for a new Oscar?

I really dont get how its even a discussion.

All content we play is a Game. The fact that Erdtree requires majority completion of base Elden Ring is not only inconsequential, it gives even more weight to the nomination. In spite of not accessing this content until well over 30-40 hours of gameplay in Elden Ring, it is one of the best Game Experiences of the year.

The point of adding additional categories to any kind of award show is to highlight aspects of the industry that are under-represented in other categories. The reason to add a DLC/Expansion Category should be that there are DLCs and Expansions that you want to credit that aren't getting recognition.

The point of a Best Game, Game of the Year, etc, is to say "This is the best thing you can play this year".

The Game of the Year award should only go to stand alone releases. For example The Witcher 3's dlc shouldn't be eligible but AC Valhalla: Dawn of Ragnarok should be eligible in their respective years. Sequels, even if they're almost identical, should be eligible just like at the Oscars with LOTR. Can you image people saying that Return of the King wasn't eligible because it didn't "shake up the formula enough" from the Fellowship of the Ring? That'd be crazy!

I think a DLC/Expansion category makes most sense logically. Plus you get to give more games the spotlight by adding a category that really feels like it belongs as its own category. So it just seems like the easy way to please all and spotlight more games. Win/win.

With Astrobot, I just didn't want to play a game that's essentially am advertisement for a system I already own

Great fun! I really enjoy this podcast. Thank you.

Wukong is not a boss rush. If you only play the early part of the game, you can think that it is. There is plenty of exploration. It took me 60 hrs to complete everything between exploration and combat. It has huge open areas to explore, secrets, minibosses, and hidden bosses like a souls game. I wish people would stop pushing this false narrative who haven't played through more than the first area.

I fully understand people who see the complaints about nominating DLC for GOTY as pointless categorization wankery. On the other hand: this is the Game of the Year Awards - the entire thing is an exercise in pointless categorization wankery, so why draw the line there? If I cared at all about the Geoff Keighley MTV Game Awards Sponsored By Gillette, I'd probably mind that SotE was nominated, but fortunately I don't.

A lot people don’t have the money nor the time to invest in any other games anymore. Most of the people I know barely even played any of the nominees. Of course they’re going to nominate a DLC because that’s all they played this year 😂

I love how animated and passionate Mike gets when talking about his work 😊 I feel his excitement and it's very sweet to see

Whereas I'm playing MWII campaign and every time I log in there's a different set of menus and updates.

It could've been sold as a separate stand alone game and cost 60$ and everyone would've eaten it up. It has 60 hours of content. Almost as many new toys to play with, bosses, locations etc as the Elden Ring itself. It absolutely deserves the nomination. Many sequels have reused assets and animations and whotnot. Way i see it this is just a semantics issue, which is reductive and distracting of what an actual masterpiece of art SoTE is and its need of highest level of recognition.

I had this conversation in the comments section of another video, and I hard disagree with the people saying that something can't be nominated for GotY just because it's a DLC. What you're essentially saying if you argue this is that it would be completely ok to be nominated if the devs had simply put in a front-end launcher that allowed you to play it standalone with no other changes whatsoever to the game. This doesn't change the base product AT ALL, and it has nothing to do with what the definition of a "game" is, yet it completely changes the situation for these people.

In the other conversation I had, I equated it with this analogy:
If Peter Jackson had required people to have paid for and watched 'The Fellowship of the Ring' before being allowed to watch 'The Two Towers' with absolutely nothing else changing about the movies, you would have to argue that then 'The Two Towers' couldn't be nominated as a movie if you wanted to remain intellectually consistent here.
All because of the way the payment works alone, nothing to do with the actual thing itself.

I think it's basically a nonsensical argument based solely on what someone has to pay for and how the launcher works, which seems like a super shallow way to group games into categories.

It's funny, I looked it up and wish listed catalyst as soon as Mike said it was an isometric action game set in the Tron: Identity universe. Didn't need to be dared, didn't know about the link in the description until the deed had already been done.

Don't agree with it improving anything from the base game. What it did do is introduce a new upgrade system that you have to search for...which I wasn't a fan of. I mean it's fine, but there was already an upgrade system in place and now my lvl 240 character is useless until I find scadutree fragments? Meh. Dlc was a lot of fun, I wouldn't vote for it being game of the year though, the final shape was better imo. Dlcs should just have their own category

Trent Reznor once said ‘an award only means as much as the entity that bestows it upon you’ or something similar

I've not played Elden Ring at all. Reminds me of The Witcher Blood and Wine. That DLC was so massive, it was basically it's own game. Is Shadow of the Erd Tree on relatively similar scale?

If yes, I have no problem with it being nominated.

I hope it wins just to create chaos

Its not that serious. Yal more serious about this than voting for real people lol

Shadow of the erdtree is like average play time 60 hrs

Mike's audio was crisp and clear this episode! The conversation around awards was interesting especially within the context of the article that came out this past week about the top grossing movies this year nearly all being sequels. I'm excited for and happy for your next Tron game, Mike! Great and insightful conversation as always~

The DLC conversation is just the games industry with its head up it's own arse. Something being a DLC is mostly about how that content is delivered to gamers, it doesn't limit the quality or value of the content in any way. No reason to start pretending it ever had some other magical definition.

So much better without Troy Baker on here