Joker: Folie à Deux | Spoiler Discussion

I had high hopes simply because Todd Philips is a great director and lady gaga is a fine actress…The issue with the movie was what they did with joker and gaga…I don’t think it’s a bad movie but it’s absolutely an acquired taste and it’s simply not for me…If the first movie was depressing this movie is depression 100x.

I hated this movie so much!

The movie was horrendous

Heard about the ending earlier, yiiiiiiiiikes. Ruins the entire first film.

Arthur was definitely r-worded by the guards. The film officially lost me at that point.

Just subbed m8 ripper content

How can you say it was all for nothing? Arthur inspired thousands of people around the world, who will continue what he started. The people he inspired care so deeply about his message that, as soon as Arthur himself wavered, his successor took over. It shows that this idea of “The Joker” is eternal… and it will eventually inspire somebody else to fight against it: Bruce Wayne.

I also think it was incredibly cool how we know absolutely nothing about the new Joker; he has no name, no backstory, and no relatives. All we know is that he was once inspired by Arthur. He will now probably take what Arthur stood for and bastardize it into the pure chaos that the Joker stands for in the comic books.

Knew I could count on you Chris, you nailed every thought I had about this movie. Literally every plot point goes nowhere and is pointless.
First escape attempt, goes nowhere. Musical numbers, goes nowhere. Harley lying, goes nowhere. Harleys psychology background, nowhere. Her pregnancy, goes nowhere. Bombing escape, goes nowhere. Their relationship, goes nowhere. New "Joker", goes nowhere. You could cut Harley out completely and it doesn't change the movie. This movie undoes itself and anything good from the first movie.

The first movie holds a very special place in my heart, this just felt like a slap in the face.

my biggest issue with the movie is that they didn’t expand on arthur as a character. he’s the same sad depressed character he was in the first movie. my second issue is although i enjoyed the musical aspects they didn’t add anything to the story. it was like a pause, dance break, resume sad and depressing movie. don’t get me wrong it’s a good movie just not great like the first. a step down in almost every aspect that made the first one great.

Honestly im not surprised, from the trailer it didnt look that compelling to me, ill still check it out for myself tho

Ironically I haven’t been this angry at a movie since Halloween Ends

I can’t figure out if Todd has pulled off the biggest movie troll of the century or just legitimately thought all of this sounded like a good idea. If he’s trolling, then bravo. If not, well, alright then.

So, we all watched over 4 hours of not the Joker in 2 movies called Joker. Wtf.

I really think the guard did that to him in the shower. Because I think after they were done what they were doing to him they also showered him and put him back in the cell

If they really want to make a third one, it’ll start with Arthur being rushed to the hospital….. perhaps they’ll try fix the story in a third film. Highly doubt it though

Maybe the point of the film is to show Arthur is at square one both in world and meta. Think back to the first film and remember the Waynes were the driving momentum that pushed Arthur over the top into the Joker until they were killed by the end. Now in the sequel he has nothing to take out his pent up aggression or fixate upon in a sick twisted way making him a shell of a man until he meets Harley. The story only works when there is NO BATMAN which brings onto the second part, the meta commentary. Arthur Fleck = Ben Afleck 🙃 is not the batman anymore and possibly neither is Robert Patterson for the main DC universe. As far we know there is no batman set in the joker's world because of all the projects being worked on the side and still no definitive version.

Why does Lee care if she's free? She literally volunteered herself in the asylum. 🤦

Im pretty sure todd philips deliberately flopped this film so he didn't have to do anymore 😂

You missed the real Joker: Todd Phillips! 🤡🤡

Great review chris this movie was disappointing for me aswell you make some great points in the video. My friend mentioned to me that harley may have paid off the inmate to kill arthur since harley has rich parents

Lady gaga should've not used this for a roll out...🤷🏽‍♂️ this wasnt supposed to be a musical

Woker ..folie a doo doo

For Those Struggling To Make A Connection Between Both Films:

Joker
-Arthur is troubled, sick, delusional, ostracized from society. Life is beating him down.
-Arthur is pushed to his breaking point when he gets fired and heads home on the subway and ends up killing three men.
-Arthur runs away and goes to the bathroom and has an epiphany that this persona he has is the real him, and he embraces the identity that he has not yet named (Joker).
-Arthur is delusional and experiencing hallucinations, and he eventually discovers that his mother abused him and was lying to him about everything. He eventually ends up killing her.
-Arthur gets invited to the Murray Franklin Show because of a clip that was found of him doing stand up. He says yes, and plans to kill himself on the show.
-When Arthur is in the dressing room he asks Murray to call him Joker and he finally identifies himself with the name Joker
-Arthur ends up changing his mind and kills Murray instead. This event causes riots to take place all over the world. He also gains a following and becomes a symbol. Something he did not plan or anticipate. He is then captured eventually and sent to Arkham.

Final Thoughts: Should we be rooting for a murderer? Should we feel bad for someone who is deemed an unreliable narrator and is ultimately a murderer? Is Arthur really capable of being a criminal mastermind when he is mentally ill and unstable? Joker was probably never really the true Joker…Todd Phillips let us know this awhile ago…the audience watching this film was rooting for Arthur, but we have to ask ourselves, should we really be rooting for him?

Joker: Folie A Deux

-Arthur is in Arkham, model inmate, still gets bullied, mistreated regardless. He has stopped taking his medication. We find out that he has a following outside of the prison, and that a tv movie was made which has catapulted his fame to new heights. Joker is struggling with maintaining this identity and loses his spark. Uses music to balance the fractures in his mind throughout. He is also in an ongoing trial for his murders. Harvey Dent is seeking the death penalty.
-Arthur encounters Lee who we find out is “in love” with him and influences a lot of his decisions. Arthur is infatuated with her and believes that she loves him for who he is. When he meets her, Joker comes alive again and he starts to sing and unlock the true music that was always inside of him. It turns out that Lee is actually just a delusional, obsessed fan of Arthur and did things just so she could be closer to him.
-Arthur eventually reveals to the world, to the audience, the jury, that he really is not Joker. That it was just an act, a character he played and that he was tired of it all. He realized that he couldn’t keep up the act and convince everybody of his innocence. This created a huge let down for fans across the world. The people that rooted for him, the people that looked to him as a symbol, as a hero, were deceived and ultimately angered. Lady Gaga then falls out of Love with Arthur because he is not the Joker. She tells him when they last encounter that all they had was the fantasy. Arthur also comes to a realization that he’s tired of singing. She then leaves him and he gets locked up.
-At the end, Arthur is leaving to go see a visitor, and an inmate, who was fascinated by Arthur, followed him, saw him as a symbol, etc., approaches him to tell a joke. Arthur is giving the inmate at the end a shot at a joke, the same shot that nobody gave him. At the end of the joke he says “you get what you fucking deserve” and stabs him to death. The inmate carves a smile into his face (homage to Heath) alluding that the symbol of Joker and who Arthur represented still carries on. Joker even says at the end “I want a fine young son, to take my place.” Thats Life.

Final thoughts: Arthur’s life was always a tragedy. That’s life. Arthur was never the true clown prince of crime. He was just playing a character that he ultimately could not keep portraying. The joke was on us. The society in Joker is a mirror of us. We were all let down by the reveal that the person we were rooting for was ultimately not Joker. We were all cheering on a murderer and we found it acceptable because he was Joker. But is it really acceptable? Joker was just the symbol/inspiration for the real Joker to take place. His legacy will live on.

Additional thoughts: The first film is called Joker not The Joker. This was an origin story, not THE origin story. The idea was that this wasn’t THE Joker it was an inspiration for the actual one.

What were they thinking!?

I had to give your poor review a thumbs down for the lack of research here. Loved the movie!

People love to hate

Where are all the people saying this was a masterpiece from watching the trailer?

I haven’t seen the film and won’t because of that ending

Gutted by how disappointing this film was!

How about this for the ending?: There should have been a "running joke-(tie into Killing Joke)" that Arthur tells but we dont hear the punchline to, just like when hes laughing at the "you wouldn't get it" line at the end of Joker. In Arkham, the inmate comes up, tells Arthur a joke. Arthur doesnt laugh, is afraid because he sees the knife. The inmate asks, "How about another joke?" with an evil look and smile on his face. Its a pirate joke, he puts the knife in his mouth and Arthur punches him. The blade cuts the inmates mouth on both sides, looking like Ledger's version. The inmate picks up the knife and stabs Arthur. Arthur slides down the wall. The inmate sees Arthur hurt and bleeding, motioning for him to come closer. Arthur through gulps and gasps tells him the "runnng joke". Cut to a far shot, you see but cant hear the punchline, only his mouth moving then a big laugh from Arthur. The inmate stands up, starts to giggle, then starts laughing louder. The inmate catches his reflection in the knife blade, Arthurs blood and the blood on the inmates face resemble Heath's version. As the camera is panning backward around a corner...the most classic Joker laughs starts getting louder, echoing down the halls...the Real Joker is born because of the punchhline to the "running joke".

Yeah I wasn't interested in this movie.. thanks for the spoilers.. now I really don't want to watch it.. I didn't really like the first one either.. 😁👍

I thought the same thing, I think the guards definitely did shit to him - it was also coming right off the scene where they talked about him being sexually abused as a kid so I think that was a like another here we go moment

Also, is it just me or is it not really weird there was no mention of the Wayne’s murders and any and all fallout from that and/or no young Bruce update ?

I have heard nothing but cluster fuckery with regards to this film, so I am avoiding this like the plague and saving myself the disappointment 😅

The story could have continued where the first movie left of and expanded on it. I didn't expect this Joker to be like the comic version but come on... the first movie was great and there was so much to explore Joker/ Arthur further more and expand the story arc of the character and this alternate universe.

❤❤❤❤❤

You've completely missed the point of both 'Joker' movies. Todd Phillips did not make 2 'comic book' movies. Your opinion of both of these movies has proven him to be absolutely right. Twice. These two movies are masterpieces and you are absolutely oblivious as to why. Stick to watching Marvel movies or Fast and Furious 12.

I completely agree about Arthur not being consistent with 2019, makes no f*cking sense.

That guy wjo carved a smille into his face, was a flat out INSULT to Heath, barely seeing the guy and now he thinks hes heath ledger

oozing what, did you guys watch a different first movie?
even as the joker, when he was talking with Murray, he was on the verge of tears, and a complete mess,
now he's in the looney bin, getting beat up and grape all the time,
also they put him back on his meds mate, which he didn't take towards the end of the first and progressively got worse have you missed that part?

at this point I'm convinced most people bitching about this movie and review bombing it, didn't pay attention the first one and now don't understand what's happening

It's like when the movie ends because -- it was all a dream. Well f*ck me, what a waste of time then

I could be wrong, but maybe James Gunn had something to do how the film ended up the way it did.

I loved the second one and the full character arc for Arthur coming back around almost to where he started, I actually found it more interesting than the first one, I think maybe people thought the first one meant more than it was supposed to

Seems like the entire project was made out of spite. Spite for the studio for making them make it, spite for the fans for demanding it. So here, here's your shitty sequel you begged for. I know there's spiteful movies that have been made.

Hell go back and watch SummerSlam '05. Shawn Michaels main evented one of the biggest shows ever with Hulk Hogan and spitefully worked like a dick the entire time as the world watched.

I’m glad I’m waiting until it hits hbo max lol thanks Chris Brad my doubts when they had Gaga in the movie that it was going to be a singalong

It's a shame you saw the movie. I thought the film was brilliant. I loved all the music (it took me back to the time of beautiful melodies). So what? It's not the Joker of Batman... how many movies are this good? This movie had class.. This film was art. Sorry you couldn't get it!

It not Heath ledger joker at the end people are fucking stupid

I watched the movie yesterday when it came out on digital because people were talking so badly about it that I wanted to save the money on going to the theater. I don't know if I went with my expectations so low or what, but I swear I can't see the bad in this movie. I thought it was GENIUS.
I don't want to be overbearing and say “oh, but you didn't understand” because I can perfectly understand those who didn't like the movie, but I understood the meaning and the layers throughout. Maybe it's me philosophizing beyond the film itself, trying to justify the scenes, but idk, I thought it was great.
Almost all the songs had a reason and few sounded out of tune. Okay, sometimes they went on too long, but most of them made sense with the story they wanted to tell.
And the movie takes a heavy turn after the scene with the guards when they rap... Arthur. It seems that the film breaks Arthur and shows everyone who projected themselves onto the Joker in the first film that he's just some guy projecting himself above what he was and in reality he's an extremely broken and traumatized guy.
I thought the ending was valid, after all, if he didn't die, what would he be? He'd go to jail?! But I thought it was a bit random that the guy killed him. But I think it must be some kind of metaphor that I didn't catch.

Edit: I saw some people saying that it could be heath's joker who killed Arthur and I went back to review the scene and I think it's a valid interpretation.
I thought the ending was better now but I personally would make Arthur stay stuck in the miserable arkham like he was, that way we would see Arthur at the beginning of the movie stuck in a miserable state, being manipulated to rise as something he is not (joker) so that in the end he only ends up in the same state he started, stuck in a miserable state.

Again, I don't want to be overbearing because I understand those who didn't like the movie, but I personally thought the criticism was so explicit that everyone would pick it up
And just to conclude: that part of the trial where they say “you spent less than 2 hours with Arthur and you think you know him” he is an TERRIFIC meta commentary

I was willing to go with it until the end... when I got incredibly angry. HE FUCKING DIED??? And this is after he just gives up and becomes some boring depressed buy again. YAH... sure glad I watched a 2 1/2 hour movie about THAT GUY! I could not believe what the fuck I had just watched all these talented people just flush down the toilet. How could they all think this was remotely a good idea?