The Limitations of Chemical Resistance Durability Testing

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First

Pan the organizer has his own brand called clean it the new hype

Totally agree, I watch these tests where you do 20 odd washes and the product is still ‘zinging’, I then use the product and see major fall off in 3 or 4 washes even though I follow all the ‘’gental’’ wash methods and products

Morning.
Have a nice 1st named storm.
Have you asked at any of the product designers how they run tests?
When Traceless came out.
I thought the Bilt Hamber information videos were interesting.
You could channel Heath Robinson & maybe even get an extra channel out of people hooked on car product testing automata.
Stay safe.
Cheers

Interesting stuff Jon.
Something I had not really thought about.
I guess using an alkaline foam, I shouldn't worry if a coating is degraded more with an acidic cleaner....

Hey Jon, Interesting points regarding endurance testing and, after your explanation, I think you are on the right track with the “multiple maintenance wash” method for giving us a guide to how well LSPs will last. Hammering the panel with strong APC or Strip Wash etc. is interesting, but only tells us how the LSP resists that chemical. Doing your wash method (Foam > Rinse > Hand Wash > Rinse > Dry > Repeat………) at least replicates what we will do to our paint every 1-2 weeks and should give a better “feeling” of how LSPs compare in “normal” use. Not sure if any other chemicals are valid - maybe the occasional spray of bug remover in summer or APC/Citrus in winter but only sprayed and rinsed. You mentioned the effect of dirt - maybe a weak solution of “dirt” sprayed on after your last daily wash would help realism - not sure, just thinking as I type. Anyway thanks for all the great content, enjoy your holiday and remember they will have hairdressers there too! 😉

There's also the fact that when comparing new with old products they might not be as durable. I no a fue people that really rate cancoat and say u use an old bottle. But maybe it's just reacted more to strip washes like u said.

The first thing and the best to start off with is a Ceramic coating and wash the car on a regular basis with a Ceramic shampoo because each time you use the Ceramic shampoo its like a treatment and adds to the protection.

Lsp???

I think in the grand scheme of things, it does not really matter because we are still using like detail sprays to dry the car which will last to the next wash and the base protection is still protected. Your longevity test is good for me as it gives me a comparison of value for money for the product. For example paying £20 pounds for something that lasts 2 weeks and the same price for another that lasts 1 month, I will buy the one that lasts 1 month.

hmm so really u want to find a lsp that is very resistent to touchless. i really havnt had any problems thought.

Interesting video Jon! I'd like to make 3 comments:
1. Resistance tests of LSP products against strip washes I value more as a strip wash product test rather than a LSP durability test, because as you pointed out it's uncertain whether this will translate to real-world durability.
2. If you simulate maintenance washes, I presume that every wash cycle includes a pre-wash (preferably alkaline) like in the real world. It would be interesting to see what will happen if you apply the odd bug remover in the mix. In my experience bug removers very aggressive in degrading LSPs. Of course this could also be a useful stand-alone test.
3. Testing the degradation of different wash mitt types is a fantastic idea! In my experience, the contact wash itself significantly adds to the degradation of LSPs. Products like bathe+ resist touch-less foam & rinse cycles much longer than regular contact washes.
Enjoy your holiday!

The area where you live will also determine the endurance of the applied product. If you live near the Seaside, next to some Iron Manufacturing Process Plant (belching out everything nasty), your neighbour burning rubbish and the Ash settles on your beloved vehicle. Your Neighbours Cat lifting its tail spraying its instagram on your freshly dressed tyres. Seems like everyone and everything is working against us!

Nothing better than a FD upload on a cosy Sunday afternoon with a brew! Will you ever be reviewing/testing yumcars products Jon? Been impressed with the few I've used to far, they're up there with Gyeon, BH, Carpro for me

Apex detail tests are pretty legit. With chemicals found on the road (oil, antifreeze etc). Gives some information. TW Seal and shine aldo is unbeatable in short term it lasts only 3-4 months on my car. So chemical torture test are mainly for information and fun fun fun :))

Just brainstorming as an engineer... I'd be trying to put a rig test together to replicate and accelerate the degradation on a panel behind the wheel ie the lower half of the door.
I can imagine a strong spray (closed loop pumping system) on a panel at an acute angle using the best equivalent, but stronger, of the liquid thrown up from a typical road during rain. Obviously the test would need some developing to get a relatively quick and representative test (and comparator test between paint protection products).

Hoods last the longest on a vehicle. The lower front door is always the one to fail first in my experience.

Thank you for doing a more realistic test on product longevity. While amusing, I never understood the use of chemicals, that I would never use to wash my car, to test the real-world durability of an LSP. I would like to see you do tests that specify the wash mitt/sponge used (Type, micofiber blend xx/yy), the TDS of the tap water used, the actual outdoor test environment (rain hours, temperatures, sunny hours) and some indication of the outdoor air polluntants (in the US, they publish the Air Quality Index).

It’s funny how we all go down this durability rabbit hole, 99% of us are probably adding something after every wash anyway,

I ceramic coat my own vehicle to calm my brain 😂 I just like to know that I’ve got something substantial down, I love a spray product and use one almost every time I clean my car so you can argue I’m not even getting the benefit of the ceramic,

I’m trying to thin my product range but it’s bloody hard, especially watching this channel, going to pick up the SiRamik at some point to try on the GF and sons car 😂

Oh and I tried Rrw today and really liked it which is good as it’s much better priced than the others.

Longevity is nice but I don’t worry too much about it as I don’t put down a LSP and leave it for 6 months, apart from washing regularly. I always put something on after a wash either at the drying stage or after. It may be a QD with little protection or something to top the protection. You could have a LSP which only last 2 weeks but that wouldn’t be an issue if you top it up after every weekly wash. Saying that, there’s a certain amount of satisfaction having something on the car that’s supposed to last 12 months.

I have can coat on my car. The right half hood has a square about 20x20 with significant slower sheeting. I have never done anything different to that square.
The left half of hood can be easily dried with air blower, on the right half the beads don`t totally run with the leaf blower. Go figure.

Probably the best place to do the test on a car would be the roof

Can you test Kenotek Cargo 4100 Snowfoam against Bilt Hamber Touch-Less. Youll be amazed with Kenotek

A wash media test would be awesome. I use a chenille micro fiber wash sponge as I feel that's the least aggressive wash media to use. But is it? maybe you're onto something there....maybe you could borrow some of that testing equipment you mentioned ages ago on another vid to measure any results. That's a really good subject matter to test.

My VW Deep Black Pearl seems to show more blue pearl in the door edges that I’ve never coated in anything. If I strip everything off my paintwork what would be the best product not to mute the pearlescent metallic flake. Currently used fusso dark wax and auto finesse ceramic detailer spray.

Jon, check out Dmitry's Garage way of testing LSP durability. He's done the maintenance wash method on single layer of Fusso or with a topper to show the increased durability from using a sacrificial layer. He's a small channel in comparison but very science-based. Another point I would make is that most people these days are more focused on an LSP's ability to resist road grime, salt, bird poo, sap and how easy it is to remove these contaminants with the least amount of contact. Take BSD for example. It has many quality BUT it gets clogged very easily to the point that by just using a pressure washer you'd be excused for thinking it completely failed. It's only after a more intrusive contact wash that it reveals itself again. Grime just sticks to it. This is the reason why I stopped using it as often.

Ye cannae do it like that Jon 😅