Fallout: New Vegas - The Psychology of Joshua Graham

now he's tiktok voice ai

I'd argue his affinity should be neterual until the end of the quest, going up if the player passes all spech checksn and down if the player fails to stop him 'making his anger gods anger' and slaughtering captives

What's crazy is that there are figures like Joshua Graham in real life... Joshua Milton Blayhi AKA General Butt Naked from the Liberian civil war comes to mind, formerly a leader of a rebel faction during the decades long war in Liberia who committed some extremely heinous crimes against humanity even engaging in acts of cannibalism against his enemies, after the war ended he became a born again Christian and now runs a small church and a sanctuary for veterans and former rebel soldiers of the war to help rehabilitate back into society, many of them suffering from PTSD and having developed drug addictions too, that's just one example of a real life Joshua Graham and I'm sure there are many others like retired mobsters etc.

I slightly disagree with the interpretation that Joshua knows himself when he meets you first, though he is on the precipice of completion as a person when you find him, he is conversely on the precipice of losing himself entire, such is the knife's edge of fighting for a cause, good or bad, the methods can break you, and the methods he knows are worse than most.

When he speaks his "three reasons" for you not to harm Daniel each of his reasons depict a part of his incomplete character.

First he warns you that it would not be effortless to do so, it speaks to his pragmatism. He knows it might dissuade you from doing it.
Secondly he warns you that even if you succeed he will kill you. It speaks to his brutality. He knows it might dissuade you from doing it even if you think you can beat Daniel and the tribals.
The FIRST TWO reasons he gives you are mundane, logical reasons he has learned that drive people, they are good reasons that a mundane person would heed, and he gives them to you because he legitimately doesn't want you to do this.

Then thirdly he warns you it would be bad for your soul. This is a statement he knows would ring hollow in most people, but he is aware it's the most important not to do this--because he even if you succeeded in killing daniel and even graham, your hands would be stained. This is the only non pragmatic thing he says, it is a statement that would only touch a moral man with awareness of his actions as well as empathy for making, something he knows is a rarity in this world now. I think this represents that his ability to do something wholly good, uninformed by pride, pragmatism or self interest is still burgeoning.

I think this represents how he still has a mundane side that understands what drives men, despite his more ethereal views. He is still an earthly pragmatist, bound to reality and all its brutality, at this point in time he is still at the crossroads, as someone who creates his own problems (Him later admitting he is the one who keeps starting these own fires) because of his mundane attachments. Without YOUR intervention, Graham will never reach true enlightnment on his own, because he is too stained by hatred, Daniel has always known this, which is why their views never matched. If left to his own devices he would've become a warlord that invokes the name of god to justify his behaviour.

If joshua didn’t believe in jesus he would just be a violent psycho because there is no oughts on atheism secular humanism is just we have to behave good because we have to behave good.

You are just an evolved monkey on atheism
there is no meaning to anything there is no purpose no afterlife(which isn’t true in fallout nor real-life)

Atheism is also pointless because in atheism there is nothing in christianity there is something what is the point of atheism to say in the void in which you cant speak in that i was right this fool was wrong he was a fool for god and now is in heaven to await a coming world

The Mormon Joshua Graham is my favorite Fallout New Vegas character. He was baptised twice, once in water and once in fire. He is a Born Again Christian ✓

As a thought experiment, imagine a world who's condition could possibly justify as severe a condemnation as that of the flood. If you can't, try harder. Amplify it to such a level that if the power of divine justice were in you're hands, you would feel disgusted in yourself for not intervening, then go further still. It should utterly horrify you... now multiply it by factors of 10. So, the question is, could such a world have a possibility of existing? What would need to transpire to make it a reality?

This character literally motivated someone to be baptized in my YSA ward. Happy to have this representation as a Latter-day Saint

The only thing I can contribute is a piece of trivia:
Notice how Joshua Graham pronounces "Caesar", (Seize-er) which is the English pronunciation. Given that all the other Legion members you meet call Caesar (Kai-sar), which is the Latin pronunciation, which is definitely something Joshua would have known during his time with the Legion, serves as a subtle mark of contempt for Caesar, despite Joshua's new outlook on forgiveness and love.

I think his good karma alignment reflects his current state.

After all, the Karma stat is something that can fluctuate throughout the game. You can gain Karma no matter how evil you are.
This makes Joshua all the more deserving of having it in my opinion, because it means that he was all the way on the evil side, and slowly but surely did enough good deeds to slide it the other way.

Joshua is a fraud, he is a Mormon which means he is Christian. Jesus was against revenge "love thy enemy, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you and prey for those who persecute you" "You heard it be told, an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth but I tell you do not resist the evil one for if someone is to strike you on the right cheek then turn to them the other" Jesus would not approve of his vengeance He is not fully committed to his god...Just another psycho psychotic religious person...why is it always the atheists who have to tell religious people about their own book it blows my mind. And this is the guy who converted people to church??

I like Joshua because he doesnt force you to join the mormon religion. Its your choice, or rather our choice if we were the courier.

The ideal religious man/woman.

Im not christian, by the way. I just like Joshua. Nor do I have any faith.

I wish there was a way to get Joshua to join you at the battle for the Hoover Dam. Imagine fighting Lanius with him.

Matthew 5:7 - “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy." Hebrews 4:16 - Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. Matthew 9:13 - Go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.'

Joshua is a prime example of a self righteous man. As if he was taught that his actions and character could atone for his sins. He completely disregarded gods commands for his own will.

John 14:15-31 GNT - “If you love me, you will obey my commandments. I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, who will stay with you forever. ( the Holy Spirit of god)
The Bible clearly states that the lord was and is justification for us.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast. [10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Notice in verse 9 above it’s says “ not of works lest any man should boast “

Let this be clear to all who choose to follow the teachings of Christ…

You are not saved by what you do. You are saved by the GRACE of god ( which is a free gift! )and FAITH in Jesus’ perfect righteousness.

To everyone who has an ear let him hear. To everyone who read all of this and is now starting to believe… may your salvation be complete in faith. Grace and peace of our lord Jesus Christ be with you always.

Yea the Mandalorian has good Karma Then Mand'alor The Preserver does he have Good Karma based on his Tribe his people Mandalore the Indomitable Hows his Karma for setting the galaxy especially the outer rim on fire his War gods would say Good Karma for he does not live in Sloth Combat is their way
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Do not judge One as a fish capability to climb a Tree
"

He has learn nothing but pain

Being of the same faith as Joshua, he doesn't need to do anything further to gain good "karma". He has turned away from his Sin. Killing isn't a sin when done for righteous reasons. The scriptures are full of people who had to kill and did righteously. He doesn't need to forsake his faith or form his own to be righteous.

It’s been a while since I’ve played the honest hearts DLC, but if I remember correctly the line of dialogue here Joshua expresses his desire for blood and vengeance is followed by a relinquishment of that anger and an extension of mercy. He recognizes that he WANTS to kill and hurt those that killed his people and hurt him, but he also knows that it will only bring more suffering. Joshua exhibits mercy and does so even when it’s inconvenient to him and against what he personally wants.

im an atheist, hardcore, but if i was lit on fire and throw into a canyon and LIVED, it would 100% be a fire baptism and I'd emerge not only religious but downright zealotic

Don’t know if this was on purpose but there is a similar redemption story in the Book of Mormon with the sons of Mosiah

incredible analyze

The light of the mind alone cannot dispel all darkness

"Sometimes i tell myself these wildfires never stop burning, but im the one who starts them...not god"

Watching this while writing a joshua graham fic feels great

I have schizophrenia and I survived an experience which brought me near death, I attribute my survival to God.

As a Latter-Day Saint, I was honestly impressed with how well the depiction of us was done through Joshua Graham and Daniel in Honest Hearts and through the Followers of the Apocalypse at the Old Mormon Fort. It’s why I hope there will eventually be a Fallout title set somewhere in New Canaan.

It blows my mind how such a genius character is tucked away in a DLC to a decade old, cult-classic game.

How did he actually survive the fall into the Grand Canyon though? All this philosophizing and "the fire inside me burned brighter than the fire on the outside" is cool and all but its not actually an answer. How the fuck did he walk away from something like that, it doesn't make any sense. Fallout is a grounded series, this is a mythological event. Is God not only confirmed real in the fallout universe but also on the lookout for genocidal dogs who pissed off their master too much? What about the world changing implications of this? It just sounds like a plot hole that the writers created trying to follow the rule of cool during the main game but never actually found the answer to.

Joshua is a man who overcame a crisis of faith. He failed his God and yet came back to Him. Every day, he burns. And every day, he will continue to burn. And every day, he will serve his God. He will serve Him by removing blasphemous people from His temple, or he will take God's children to their chosen land outside of Zion.
And every day, he will burn.

I'm among those who believe that Joshua's suffered the repercussions of his actions. He straight-up says that he has to change his bandages every day to prevent infection (Better to be clean, than comfortable), and every time he does so, he suffers through agonizing pain which, in his own words, is "Like living through it again." In Christianity, Hell is often depicted as being full of unholy fire; Hellfire, in other words. Which seems eerily similar to what Joshua is going through.

One could say he's living through his own living hell, but I believe it's more of a living purgatory. God showed him mercy in his darkest hour, but every day, he reminds him of the monster he once was. It's also worth mentioning that Joshua isn't self-righteous; he genuinely believes in the idea of God and Jesus, and believes he was saved by them. And yet, he doesn't go out of his way to force his beliefs on others; even when the Courier openly mocks his religion, he shows some patience and admits that it's probably hard for someone who grew up in the Wasteland to believe in what he believes in.

And at one point, Joshua mentions that it's normal to fall from the path; if you ask him if he's ever fallen, he admits that he falls every day, and that some days are harder to get through than others. Which indicates that even though he's a changed man, he has to basically force himself not to devolve into the barbaric mass-murderer he once was. This is why convincing him to spare Salt-Upon-Wounds is, in my eyes, his best ending. That speech you mentioned about how Joshua says he wants to see not only Salt-Upon-Wounds, but also Caesar and the rest of the Legion and White Legs "Die in fear and pain", along with him straight-up admitting that he just wanted payback and was telling himself he was a weapon of divine justice to justify his actions, both make him realize how close he was to backsliding into the mass-murderer guy.

So, he lets Salt-Upon-Wounds flee. Which later inspires him to occasionally show mercy to his enemies. Besides, Salt-Upon-Wounds was already broken; his forces were routed and he's been publicly disgraced in front of what was left of his tribe. And if he's dumb enough to run back to Caesar, then what Caesar does to him would be infinitely worse than anything Joshua could've come up with. Like Leon Talks a Lot said: Just as Caesar broke Joshua, Joshua broke Salt-Upon-Wounds.

Worse than the Utah sun. The Grabd Canyon is entirely in Arizona. As a former Arizonan for 28 years: AZ heat is immense. It's like being too close to a campfire in summer. The sun weighs on you, heavy.

At least in Southern AZ. I lived in Tuscon. I hear Flagstaff isn't as bad, being in the mountains.

Honestly judging someone’s morality is like playing God to me. Basically my judgment on his character doesn’t make it a reality as I’m human would likely do the same thing. You know bias and justification and what not to make me feel like a better person. If at the end of the day a fucked up person is still a fucked up person and I’m insane so there’s that.Everyone’s the main character of their own lives with their own reasons and justifications for their actions I’m a side character as are they in mine. But if I had to give my humble opinion I’d say yea he’s a good person in a world where being good is hard. Think about it are people good people because it’s easy to be? Or would they be good no matter what? I think Josh lives in a fucked up world where you have to do fucked up shit to survive. Kinda rambled here😂

I think you are missing some nuance based on an atheistic world view that is not based in reality, for example the idea of evil, wrong, or right does not exist unless there is a God. Second, he was convinced by an evil man that the wrong they were doing was actually good and given the status of the wasteland you can see how building a society that is more rugged than the wasteland could be considered noble with the ends justifying the means. TLDR, God exists irl and in fallout (it's the earliest common knowledgeable among every race and demographic since the creation of man), the rejection of His direction leads to mass degeneracy (just look at san Francisco irl) , and forgiveness is all encompassing with Christ.

The crisis of faith thing isn’t really needed. Seems like you conflated fear of authority out of self preservation with the repentance he had and loving relationship he fostered with both God and the new canaanites.

There are certain things that CANNOT be forgiven. Anything that has the prefix 'serial' or 'mass' in front of it are 100% unforgivable acts.
"Reformed" is a lie he tells himself. You cannot reform or redeem people like him and Caesar. He ONLY cared about that stuff when HE finally suffered consequences. Not before. NEVER before. Only after.
There is no righting those wrongs. What he did you cannot come back from, no matter how hard he tries.

A morally weak man, unwilling to think for himself.

I just want to point out because I don't know if it was mentioned at any point in this video, but the dead horse tribe, The tribe that follows shock belongs to whose camp Joshua Graham is found in, are not the New Canaanites Joshua Graham himself mentions that the New Canaanites and the city that is New Canaan no longer exists they've been completely eradicated by the white legs orders by Caesar in hopes of destroying and actually killing Joshua Graham

he got good karma cuz when he got burnt black all his sins were forgiven. BLM

"What mental predisposition would cause someone to go from being [a religious person] to the right hand of a fascistic dictator?"

....uh...take a look at the entirety of the American Evangelical movement?

Lore of Fallout: New Vegas - The Psychology of Joshua Graham momentum 100

You don't know how hard it was to find a reading of this character without it being from the lens of a Christian.

When you lose everything in your life- right down to your own health and well-being.. sometimes the best thing you can do is live a life worthy of forgiveness- whether you believe yourself deserving or otherwise. We can’t change the past. We can’t undo all the harm we cause others or ourselves. Sometimes all we can truly do is try to be better. If we think we’ll make it or not. You have to try. That’s what the Lord commands.

If you understood Joshua's religions ancestry, then you understand the truth about repentance and forgiveness. And how the New Canaanites believed.

It’s so interesting seeing a character in media depicted as being unapologetically Christian. Not necessarily good not necessarily evil. Just a character who is written to be a Christian in a world gone to hell, and how he deals with that. Nowadays in media any devout Christian’s are either depicted as evil or morally corrupt. It’s refreshing to see

Vlad dacula

Yes joshua would be good as he has learned from his mistakes and is trying to preserve even if that means to kill for the innocent

Mechanicaly he would be good karma..if you kill enough leagon you go back to good and im pretty sure he saw god while being burned

I believe that what is most important about Joshua is that he is a hypocrite. He abandoned the Legion, or the Legion abandoned him, he made Dead Horses a fighting power, and his influence can corrupt the Sorrows. because all he can do, all he wants to do is kill and destroy. he speaks about forgiveness and higher calling, killing a surrendered captive. his words about "a path that is always there for us to follow" means to him not that we can change for the better, but meaning that he will be forgiven no matter what he does, no matter how often he does it. the path is always there, so I can kill my enemies in Lord's name, and I will be forgiven
only if the Courier helps him to spare Salt-Upon-Wounds, Joshua changes. his own words finally soak in him, and the legend of the Burned Man is no more. there is simply Joshua Graham, a man who wants to redeem himself. to earn forgiveness

For the Karma stat, I think his punishment brought his body and spirit to such a low point that all hi stats have reset, including his Karma stat, and after being healed by his people began a long road of redemption, just like the Courier, whose past and possibly karma was wiped clean when he was effectively murdered and brought back into the land of the living