The "Brave New World" of Modern Watch Brands

Very nicely done. Well considered and well balanced, and you have my gratitude for a fine presentation. This seems to me a field of consideration that requests a very fine judgment for observing subtle and important differences of approach and attitude. There is never an excuse for showing impoliteness or lack of respect, but watchmaking and its appreciation are an endeavor that inherently relies on and displays ambition and self-assurance, on the parts of both watchmakers and their patrons. For my part, I would be a little more tolerant than you claim you are prepared to be for what might seem a lack of modesty among those who apparently want to be seen as knowing their abilities and their worth. It is we, after all, who ask them to be bold in their claims of excellence. Boldness is, one could say, what we are admiring, and there is little atmosphere for modesty there. And Shakespeare pointed out the fine edge to be walked in this: "Self-love, my liege, is not so vile a sin / As self-neglecting." (Henry V, act II, scene iv.) For the rest of us, I suppose it can be a little perilous to walk among titans, if they are. And maybe that's the real sin we're sensing – that some who think they are and behave as if they are just aren't. Maybe the problem is found where some have more haughtiness than ambition, and also lack a certain decorousness. Maybe the problem is simply that some fail. But then, whom of us doesn't?

Great video and points - well done. I suspect that if brands treat customers badly the that will negatively impact those brands in the long term.

Schmeler Brook

Earline Summit

Graciela Brook

Well Said brother…
Bravo!!!!
Rolex 100% doesn’t deserve respect!!!

I think since watches stopped to be tools and became jewels, they have fallen in the jewels dynamics.
Since the beginning of history jewels were used to assert status and power over your fellow humans, and watches are rapidly falling back in that domain.
Let's remember that watches at the beginning were just worn bye kings and nobles, since they were prohibitively expensive and were just jewellery.
I guess they are going to take back that role now.

I have been wearing a watch for a long time. The stories, the credentials, the desire to wear a certain watch comes from wearing that watch. I didn't know anything about G-Shocks until I saw a fellow soldier wearing one, beating the life out of it through the rigors of training, and then i said to myself , "thats what I want".

Yes the fine swiss builders make great watches, and there are many good stories about them. What's going on in the watch market know has nothing to do with any part of that history. What we are experiencing is Entertainment Tonight highlights and the hype that's generated. Status and who is wearing what brand has put such a black eye on what we, the watch community held so dearly.

I will not wait in line, nor will I spend the insane amounts of money they are asking for, when I can purchase many other brands that will serve me with an excellent product, and the stories and history will be just colorful and rich as a brand that you would have waited years to get.

So basically you're telling Rolex to shove their watches where the sun don't shine

Step forward Rolex and scarily Tudor are now playing these silly games as well.

Can you imagine if the owner of a US Rolex AD walked into a Benz dealership and expressed interest in the top sedan but was told ‘you need to create a buying history - here is the entry level crossover’? He’d explode and be calling MB USA HQ immediately.

Agree - other brands will certainly follow. Look at smartphones: Apple started the ‘new iPhone sells out!’ phenomenon. Now Samsung copies that.

Interesting points you make IDGuy (as usual). Your last thought - to me, akin to asking: if everything attainable, is anything special? Is a good one. MUCH better minds than mine, and market research, are at work in the watch companies I know. I do feel if they shoot for the moon though—they’ll operate in space though. The latest Oyster perpetuals seem priced relatively attainably in the Rolex example, given their category - but again without decent availability, they are constrained to the highest clientele. I’d be shocked though if they don’t know exactly what they’re doing. That brand is one of the most successful in the World. So, I’d come down to— how do you define “success” as a brand? Desirability, sales, perception in line with brand. I have a Rolex and love it, but also my Seikos and Casio and Omega (which straddles now both I think the prestige and availability balance).

Definitely moving out of this hobby, if it can still be called a hobby anymore. This and some other videos are spot on.
I’ve been on the fence for a while, but already sold most of my “real” watches because of the changes in the community, the people that collect watches, having a kid, the money that is now involved, and after a mugging attempt.
While farming this summer, I’ve been in the habit of wearing nothing but Gshock, and I feel no less adventurous, charming, or [insert generic masculine marketing term here] throughout the rest of my day.

I recently celebrated my 60th and wanted to buy a Rolex Submariner. I already own a Cosmograph Daytona and an Explorer II which the AD knows because they’ve both been recently serviced. I was told politely that they only have watched to display and nothing to sell and don’t see any change in the near future. Disappointment. Didn’t stop me wanting to buy a “nice” watch. So I bought a Cartier Santos, and in the month or so after, I’ve been on a bit of a binge, buying over 15 watches, ranging from G-Shocks to a Seiko Prospex LX in addition to the Cartier. I also bought another Cartier. I find the Rolex position unsustainable for their AD’s who have expensive shops and no products to sell.

It’s the private country club mentality. Rolex has figured out that most plebs know nothing about watches, and that many of those plebs enjoy the fact they can’t flaunt their privilege in other people’s faces. Other watch brands are benefiting from the vacuum left by this behavior, and that’s a good thing.

Amazing video my friend. Everything you said was spot on so true . Good job 👏🏼

Nicely put, however: reality dictates. What should brands such as Rolex do? Ramp up production? It's the grey market which is the problem, not the watch makers. They are just doing their thing ie. making watches. The grey market is responsible for all of the necessary "regulations". What are the watch makers supposed to do when authorised dealers sell a watch for 5,000 which is worth 10,000 on the grey market? Huh?

Sheeple people

Love my Winter. Grand Seiko boutique treated me like they were welcoming me into the family, even though the first time I went in I said I planned to buy 4 months out

The brands are only giving customers what they want, which are watches that others covet but cannot obtain. No real thought from most customers as to the quality or suitability of the watches in question, just get what others can't have and show it off as much as possible. The more you spend and the higher the secondary market multiplier the better. It's a shocking indictment of human psychology in the Instagram age.

What has trust to do with you spending money on a watch. They do not care who you are at Omegas, Breitlings or even Rolexes headquarters, they just want you to buy their product. Rolex, AP and PP might be the only big brands about trust as they will not give a watch to everybody who just walks into the store, due to the predatory behaviour of flippers.

When I bought my first watch I thought I would not buy Rolex ever, as I hated the arrogance of the wearers and the annoying way you get treated at an AD. Some time on in my watch journey I now would instantly drop 10k on a Sub while not even considering a JLC diver or another Omega Seamaster.
Why? After your first and second luxury watch you can not justify anymore to drop and lose thousand on a piece of metal on your wrist, that you wear once a week. So I am sorry but I know which brand has my cash in good hands by excellent brand tradition, marketing and staying true to their identity.
Unpopular for us watch nerds, yes, but a really reasonable way of looking at my hobby.

Demand has gone crazy. I think potential customers should have a bit more self respect. Nothing wrong with putting yourself on an Ad's selling list if you truly will get one when it becomes available because your number has come up. Conversely, Those who are falling into the trap of "how many expensive watches have you purchased from us?" or, if you buy all this jewelry or watches you don't want need to evaluate their own self worth. This is of course just an opinion although, I also feel many just have too much money of late and adds to the ability of Ad's to manipulate those who want certain brands. Manufacturers aren't providing enough supply to create the equilibrium of demand vs. supply and Ad's aren't being policed by the brands to insure fairness - if nothing else.

A Daytona of a certain modern spec was £11,900 retail and I have seen that watch on the market new/unworn at an asking price of £44,000 with no capital gains tax due on the benefit of the sale. This makes luxury watches a fine place to store tax beneficial wealth, same as classic cars which has experienced this scenario for a couple of decades. Rationale: desirability + scarcity = margin

Nice analysis.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Well said!

Excellent blog, thank you.

Very well said! I’ve turned away from Rolex (not that Im important enough that they’ll give a damn) precisely because of the reasons you mention. I understand that from time to time demand exceeds supply but what is going on with some brands is definitely not that. Over the last two years I’ve bought two Zenith’s instead. I don’t mind that I’ve lost money. I’m not planning on selling them ever. Lovely watches and as you point out, a brand I can relate to with their ups and downs and ups again.

I've always enjoyed how you manage to convey a message in a calm and thoughtful manner. Your videos are as entertaining as they are informative. I can't however see what brands can do in the current state of the market - it's entirely driven by investments, and no matter what designs they come up with, people will always want to buy a Rolex, Royal Oak or Nautilus (notice I didn't say Patek, because these people only know of the Nautilus), because it's the best investment out there as well as a status symbol. I wish we could go back 5-10 years. Back then, second-hand watches where less expensive than their retail counterparts (as they should be) and people where buying watches because they liked them - Now the majority of people are buying them for all the wrong reasons, and in order for it to end, there would need to be a better investment.

Well Done! And keep up the good fight

Good points, very well made. The irony is that Rolex steel sports watches aren't rare and exclusive - there are thousands on the secondary market -- they are just absurdly overpriced.

I just got back from Las Vegas and I walked into multiple watch boutiques and dealers between the Bellagio, Caesars Palace, Wynn, Palazzo, and the Venetian. Let's just say I was treated best by Omega. Surprisingly I was offered two watches by Rolex, but they were models I was not interested in. I noticed this big pilot's watch in another store with a bent tip on the second hand and thus will not be walking into that manufacturer's stores again.

As with all things, it is always a question of who need who more? If you need a particular brand product more then they need you, then you have to oblige to their ways. The reverse is true as well.

Lol at the 10 people who downvoted this. Great video and highly appreciate the insight

Is there info on where we can submit pictures for the upcoming shows? God i need a bremont

Simply buy, wear and enjoy the Omega Speedmaster Professional…
It is one of the last “hot”, recognizable watches, that you can buy at ID and be treated like a costumer…

Interesting. As a purveyor of an unrelated product (not watches) my first action was to send the "product" and thank the buyer. That's all. In other words the seller is on a kind of pedestal, no need for complex interaction. Later, I slightly altered. I became more apt to comment on the buyer's comments (which I read online). In other words I got off the pedestal a bit. And I found this to be more fun. In sum, the buyer-seller relationship does not have to be cut and dry. However, it could be just that and no more. I like what you say about the customer is king. And that he buys into a storyline. The customer is king when he decides that he made a good purchase. Now you might think that I am confused. I'm not. There is a difference between being confused and unsure, a subtle difference. I believe you know the difference. Thank you for a good video.

Interesting… I’ve been thinking for a while now that big “mass-market” luxury brands are building the perfect storm to drive customers away (especially the next generation): increasingly insane pricing, non-availability (especially for buyers without a “history”), and being treated as (recognizable) financial assets, which actually makes it difficult to safely wear these objects in public.

Some brands a re probably strong enough to not care (Hermès, Patek/AP, Ferrari). Others, I’m not so sure - despite Veblen’s nice theory…

I think most people are over the stock limitation to price gauging bs, Brietling for me please!
Dont reward any brand with higher profit by doing less. Its cancer culture and we all see it ruining the watch collecting community.

This is largely referring to Rolex, and a couple Patek and AP models, and these jagoff AD’s. It’s very simple, don’t support companies that don’t want your money. Don’t support AD’s that you have to beg to take your money. It’s their job to get you as a customer, not the other way around. You either want me as a customer or you don’t. Omega, IWC, Grand Seiko, JLC, just to name a few, will be glad to have you.

it getz much easjerr with weapön. . ? v v

Not everyone collects for prestige. There are still those who have been collecting since long before the hype train pulled in.

People are vain. Big corporations are greedy. Who knew??? People can decide for themselves how badly they're willing to be treated just so they can flex a certain watch. For me it's beneath human dignity to prostrate yourself at the feet of a brand or AD. They can take their overpriced, overhyped timepieces and wedge them somewhere uncomfortable that demands immediate medical attention!

Hi ID Guy!
You packed a lot of heartfelt thought into this one. On that note, I would like your opinion. If it were the last watch you could buy, which would you choose: the black/silver Zenith A386, the new boutique ed. blue/ silver, or, here's the kicker, a NOS A386 with the 12 hour counter at 6 o'clock with 100m resistance?

You have absolutely outdone yourself once again! How you manage to pack so many well reasoned thoughts into such a concise and well articulated videos just blows me away! I always enjoy them and rewatch them before considering a new watch purchase. Thank you

Tulips.

Glad that Seiko bezel doesn't line up, let's us know it's genuine😉

PM me some time …..thx , this is great , great articulation and voice for all of us frustrated viewers……a continuation of Veblian economics since the Industrial Age …show upstairs downstairs two tire system