Buffy the Vampire Slayer S05E09: 'Listening to Fear' Analysis & Breakdown | Passion of the Nerd

Your criticism of its portrayal of mental illness as dated is unjustified. The show wasn't portratying mental illness at all, it was portraying the symptoms of whatever Glory does to their minds when she feeds off them. It is perfectly reasonable for the medical characters to assume mental illness and have them sectioned, but as what happens to them is incredibly story specific, I believe the show has carte blanche in depicting it however they want.

Dude, do you write? Because between your hilarious name-callings of things and your downright poetic musings and conclusions in these videos, I would like to read that book.
Also, Godzilla's tapeworm, I'm dead

Please do Roswell! Nobody talks about Roswell 😭

just impatiently waiting for the rest!

Something just occurred to me while watching the video and what I'm going to say is not in defense of Riley's actions or I think that was the original intent, but I think you could explain a lot of his actions if we look at it from the point of view that he is unconsciously trying to process the trauma of what happened with Faith and without really recognizing that what happened was traumatic everything is spiraling into destructive behaviors.

I just have to take issue with one thing, Ian.

Joyce was not "mentally ill." She was suffering the effects of a brain tumor.

Really surprised and disappointed in your interpretation of this episode. My mom had (and eventually died from having) a brain tumour, and the drastic mood swings were a big part of it. She would say strange things that were often really inappropriate and aggressive. Every few months she’d have surgery to help this, and for a couple of days after it was like having the old her back. Then, it would get worse again - quicker, each time. The abruptness and intensity of Joyce’s tumour complications were spot on, and I interpreted the demon choking her in such an intimate setting as another expression of what brain cancer does to someone; it chokes their mind, and we can’t do anything to help as their personality is smothered by this invasive, ugly thing that has struck at our loved one at random. I was looking forward to you covering this episode and I sort of feel you made fun of this aspect of it (which you’re welcome to do, it’s your channel). I guess I was expecting a more sensitive approach.

I'm SOOO HAPPY THESE ARE BACK

Don’t read too much into the music Buffy listens to when doing those dishes. Music like that is perfect music to listen to while cleaning.

I'm British. So every time you mention Thomas Wanker's name, I chuckle to myself.

I just watched Into the Woods... can’t wait for the next video! I’ve been rewatching Angel and Buffy side by side and then watching your vids afterwards for an in depth breakdown.. 👌🏻❤️

"HOW IN THE HECATE HAS NO ONE NOTICED THAT STUPID CEILING TURD WITH A FACE"

I lost my dad years ago to a heartattack and I feel for Buffy tbh

Uh... I know you do a lot of research before crafting these episodes, but can you add "medical research" to that list when an episode like this one pops up next time? Your issues with Joyce's behavior would have been addressed with just a little research into the side effects of brain tumors. Also, her momentary lapses were hinted at in "Shadow" when the doctor is going over Joyce's diagnoses with Buffy, as he told her some of the potential side effects she'd experience.

Also, keep in mind that the Scoobies never found out that it was Ben who killed those people. Had Buffy knew this, she might have had second thoughts about his fate in the season finale. Regardless, the universe does give him his comeuppance (and that's all I'll say about that because SPOILERS).

Not my favorite episode neither. I've never liked it...
I need you to focus your channel on Buffy episodes' only. I got to wait too long for these amazing videos. 😭

I always thought that Ben summoned the demon to eliminate any possible way for Glory to find the key, since her victims could identify Dawn as the key. In a way, he thought what he was doing was right and for the greater good. That whole train scenario situation, do you save one person and kill the train passengers or do you save the passengers and let one die? I never saw the victims of Glory as being dehumanized or a trope of mental illness, but more so tools of Glory and a means to find the key. I might be way off, but they felt more like minions. But yes, their representation of mental illness in this episode (and a few othera) is way off.

I have always assumed that the dishwashing music was simply some cheap thing that could be bought and used without royalties. Sort of like the YT supplied music.

Isn't the library set the one used in conversation with dead people in willows segment?

1. I don't think Jonathon slept with the twins.

2. Betty knew thar was Lewis. You can't tell me she could not tell the difference between Robert Carradine and in his prime Ted McGuinely.

3. I do not think these people were suppose to represent mental illness, but brain damage, which is a significant difference. Also their brains were sucked out by a hell god, who knows what that is like?

I think saying that Glory's victims are portraying mental illness is a bit of a stretch IMHO. This was something done TO them, not something inherent in them. Who is to say they would act the way someone with any other mental illness would act? This is what Glory's victims do in this universe. And Joyce as well. Similarly, there is a tumor doing something TO her, her behavior is not inherent in her.

Ok, ok! I know it’s already been mentioned but “the Joss Whedon” comment about the ceiling turd demon is just TOO good 😂

What you describe about this episode is connected with one of the main flaws of this season: that is seems a soap opera. In Seasons 1-4, monsters were metaphors for real problems, or devices to explore them. But here and in most of S5 they are separated. As you point out, the monster seems to be taken from an X Files episode and Joyce health problems are literal.

I wanted to offer a bit of my thoughts. From two perspectives, both as someone who has cared professionally for people suffering brain tumors, and who had lost my grandfather to one. Rewatching that incredibly confronting scene between Joyce and Dawn reminded me of being on the receiving end of one of my grandfathers outburst (one of the kindest and most gentle people I knew). Forgetting who she is, my grandfather once forgot who my brother was, he remembered he had a grandson but couldnt remeber and discussed him in a way as if I had no cause to know who he was.


I havent seen the full episode since watching your review and absoloutely bizare behaviour of patients with this disease process. Depending on the size and position of the tumor will depend exactly on what exactly happens too, the bit about the "short circut" there could also be other processes, as the disease worsens pressure can worsen on other places, there may also be a new pain medication (to manage headaches) for example could have predisposed Joyce to a subsequent delerium too which may make her diffrent more bizzare or erratic. Most importantly I dont know if it is actually meant to be a metaphore for "mentally ill".

I may be giving the writers too much credit here, but glory literally goes into these peoples brains a scrambles them, the word salad, repetition of phrases and fixations are far more common in brain injuries and disease of the physical brain, as opposed to those experienced in chemical imbalances of , for a crude comparison, a person experiencing a schizophrenic episode.

I wonder if they were trying to hint at that by making Joyce indistinguishable to the demon from their other victims. Trying to point that bit out.

In a separate thought, I havent rewatched this series since my grandfather died, but its amazing that even growing up with this media I learnt all the wrong lessons. I wasnt in a great place when my grandfather was diagnosied and I moved cities to help my mother care for him, as the oldest I put it upon myself to be the strong one and did alot of repression, trying to always hide everything when I feel apart. One of the most literal examples of this was when he was in hospice care, a minor inconvinince and the load was too much to bare, I excused myself from the room and found a large pot plant in shared area, I literally sat behind it in a ball and cried untill I couldnt cry any more. Its amazing watching that sink scene again, I always thought the music was to drown out Joyce, but now I wonder if buffy doing dishes in the dark with the music up was instead her way of hiding.

That final scene between Buffy and Joyce really does a lot to smooth over the problems with this episode for me. I honestly find it to be one of the most quietly effective emotional beats in the whole series. Maybe most of that is borrowed glow from The Body and The Gift, but I love the dignity and respect the writers show to Joyce by letting her arrive at that revelation about Dawn on her own. It kind of feels like a culmination of Joyce coming to terms with Buffy's role as The Slayer, and within the metaphor of growing up, accepting Buffy as an adult and entrusting her with Dawn's safety. It definitely feels like one of the most heartfelt and genuine moments Buffy and Joyce share in the series, miles away from her plot device-y role as an obstacle for Buffy in the early seasons. Always makes me tear up

She was nominated for a Golden Globe for her performance on Season 5

Holy fucking shit. Never thought of this before. What if Joyce’s brain problems came from the monks inserting Dawn in her head???? Like Buffy is the slayer so she could take it and her friends don’t have the same level of implanted memories??

Not that I disagree with your assessment of the episode’s treatment of crazy people however I think Ben’s lack of moral punishment from the Scoobies is likely due to the fact they were unaware of his role in summoning the crawling turd

I think that there's an element of mercy killing with Ben's actions in this episode. I think that Ben thinks that he's doing the right thing. As far as he knows Glory's victims can't be restored.

Hard disagree with your opinions on the ‘crazy people’. It doesn’t matter when Buffy was made, it wasn’t trying to portray realistic mental illness! The only realistic one was Joyce, and that had been set up many episodes before. She was doing random and impulsive stuff before and this DOES HAPPEN with some cancer sufferers where the tumour is causing pressure on certain areas.
Casting it in a woke light is irrelevant, it’s not ‘dated’ in any way. The ‘crazy people’ are not suffering from a real mental illness, they’ve had brain energy sucked out of them by a hellgod. Their illness isn’t one that exists in the real world and never will, so they can be written as they are and it’s not ‘’problematic’’. If anything it only seems to really affect their perception of the world, which is a plot device to tip Dawn off that something is up.
On to Ben…you ask detailed questions about him being a murderer (which is true) and why he didn’t face justice. After all, Faith killed one person, he killed six!!
Ok fine…but when did anyone find out about him summoning the Queller and being responsible? When did the realisation happen?
It didn’t. We the audience know, but nobody else does except Ben. It doesn’t really affect our sympathy for him; he’s a tragic and almost pathetic figure. A demonic entity was forced into him at an early age and now he has to do all he can to limit its impact on his life…wait where have we heard that before…which parallel does this draw I wonder?

The name changing for the demon 10/10

your short pieces on the episodes you hate are some of your best work. make of that what you will, but I think it's nice that you can do so much with so little.

One thing we fans should be aware of is that, although there is multi-season planning for sure in Buffy, we analyze things more than the writers do. This happens for any fandom. Because I’m not obsessed with representation (more mixed race people in art is not remotely important to me) I saw it merely as a case of bad writing. The word salads of all the brain-sucked people come off as Beck lyrics, i.e., willfully kooky. In terms of art it behooves you to get it right because the more sincere, the more resonant. Indirectly I suppose this is a way to pay respect to smaller subgroups.

But to be fair how do you write it? What is “realistic”? E.g. dream sequences in art usually take me out of the story because they’re too calculated and on the nose. A coherent, clearly symbolic, linear dream is not normal. The only reason it works for Buffy is because they make sense to the lore. She is tied to greater, more metaphysical energies. And by this logic I’m tempted to even extend some grace to the writers. Mentally ill people are not shown on the show except here, so one could argue that this was not mental illness but people Glory, an insane hellgod, bestowed her insanity upon. Glory is mad from being in our dimension, so when normies get a taste of hers they similarly go mad. But then again, I might be overthinking, as fans do.

Instinctively I’m slightly upset, as you are, that the people the queller killed are disposable, especially since they’re disabled and in a way helpless. The bald guy was still a dad. But shouldn’t we feel bad for ALL human victims of vampires and demons? What does it say that we feel worse than normal when bad things happen to certain peoples? Sympathy and empathy for all, or for none.

My favourite line from this episode:

Xander: Why are we researching the snot eating monster?
Giles: Because it's a snot eating monster from space ... I did not say that.

Huh..I expected a lot more emphasis on the moment between Buffy and Joyce at the end as it felt like the most important scene in the episode tbh, weird that it was just..ignored

As this episode originally aired I was 19 and in the midst of taking my Mom to daily radiation treatments for her cancer and we were simultaneously facing an eviction from the only home I had ever known. The scene where Buffy breaks down crying alone while doing the dishes hits especially hard as I had literally done the same thing earlier that same week. This ep may not be perfect but it will always have special place in my heart.

I actually thought the monster of this episode very very effective and creepy. The scene where Joyce is babbling incoherently at the thing on the ceiling was a moment of genuine horror.

Kal El's distant cousin Darin
ceiling turd with a face
Godzilla's tapeworm
Satan's dingleberry
what-the-orc-ate-for-dinner-last-night (I first heard that as "what Bjork ate for dinner" lol)
the Joss Whedon

I'm real late on this, but when you're done here, pour out your love for Buffy watching TNG with a TNG guide. Yeah, I'm just vamping and hoping. Bye, lol.

Your mind is what makes you you - losing it means you cease to be. Ben summoning the qualar demon to kill off what was left over is Ben putting whatever was self-aware in what was left over out of its tourment and misery. Tera later even describes what it was like - given no other option than to exist like that or die, death definitely seems like the more merciful option. Morality doesn't have a sell-by-date and Buffy was spot-on with this. I also see nothing wrong on the morality front of Jonathan in that he took pleasure in the company of two attractive blondes who were just riding the gravy train of his success - much to his ultimate disappointment (although he didn't seem too surprised). He fooled them with his fabricated status just as they fooled him with their fabricated interest in him.

Well gee, I didn't realize you disliked Mexican dance music so much😅. Kidding aside, enjoyable review as always.

This Episode was so freakinf creepy. I couldn't sleep without the lights on

Having rewatched recently I think I slightly disagree with your perspective on Ben. I do agree the portrayal of mental illness can definitely be problematic or understand someone feeling that way but as for Ben I think by the end of the season he seems to me to be portrayed as a coward and a bit of a scumbag this episode actually foreshadows well. He's fully willing to give up Dawn after being offered to rule with Glory and Dawn herself tells him to go away and that she would rather speak to Glory cause at least she's honest about her intentions. So in that sense I think him doing this evil thing this episode is actually a good way to establish ahead of time that despite the fact he might seem nice and sympathetic he's actually not really to be trusted

"kal el's distant cousin Darren"

What happened isn't bens fault.he's under glory's control.if he doesn't do what glory wants,worse will happen.

Quite odd, that spicy Sims kitchen salsa stock music.

Take the hellmouth-y bits out, and it's a solid story about a mom with a brain tumor and her two daughters.

Kal-El’s distant cousin Darin......I laughed so hard I nearly peed myself! ROFL