Skill Builder V Heat Geek | Heat Pump Argument

My mum has an electric boiler. If you are rich they are perfect. Small, silent, instant and clean at the point of use. Sadly costs a mint to run but plenty people don’t have any money worries, hence installs in London going through the roof.

It's about time that Roger followed up on your invitation to an installation. Lots of people are keen to see him being won over. 😂

The problem with government incentives is you get a load of companies set up to cream off the money, then when the money stops so do they. These companies whilst in operation throw in the bare minimum of systems, and this is where the horror stories come in. They don't design then properly, they don't configure them properly. Then you end up with these daily mail stories of people taking out heat pumps to fit gas again.

What scares me is social housing. If they start fitting heat pumps it'll likely go to contractors, and they will not be properly designing every system! Already there are heat pumps in some social housing where people complain they cost a fortune to run.

It needs to be a building regulations requirement that every heat pump achieves a SCOP of 3 and above. Every heat pump should be notifiable, and for a certificate from building regs they need to prove its operating above 3.

Just watched your debate and absolutely brilliant but I've been fitting boilers for the last few years and the thing you will always have is GREED that's life - meaning how fast a heat source pump system can be installed in and run with the money I see it with gas fitters, when I fit a combi the system is properly flushed the boiler is commissioned by the book also Rads balanced and I don't see many gas fitters going that extra mile and following the way they were trained and Heat Source pump will be the same so to me the way forward is to integrate AI into the control unit that takes the commissioning away from the installer and the system commissions and tunes its self to the house it is installed in but that is for the manufactures and then when the AI has completed that it sends a log back to a manufacturer or some governing body of the system details and of the installer who installed it.

Great videos - thanks.

Can you give any more details on the COP estimate being enforceable? If your installer stops responding what’s the next step? Who would help enforce it?

Many thanks.

So... if I'm someone that has just spent every penny I have on a 1950s bungalow, with limited insulation, electric storage heaters and no gas connection... what should I do to heat my home for my family this winter?? The only thing I know I can afford is burning wood!

thanks guys very nice presentation , i really enjoyed listening and learning

You always gloss over the fact that normal working familys just can't afford to install heat pumps or the additional costs involved in the installation.

We need to see better evidence and calculation on heat pumps.
Wanted heat is not heat you produce when the user is not in the building.
We need to see honest calculations and proper comparisons in the cold winter, and not averaged out over a year.

I'm glad sm1 told truth on heat up pumps alote pish, I'll stick to kingspan and maybe thermal heating panels

If you buy from the installer which almost certainly one does, then their the one who are responsible for said warranty. However any decent manufacturer would honour the warranty all be it that it was with the installer who purchased the item in the first place.

Dead ringer for a young Ben Affleck

My boiler has just broken and conceivably I could afford to install a heat pump system instead of a new boiler.

I’ve also just watched both of these episodes. Heat Geek has given the best defence of heat pumps I can imagine. The problem is there just seems to be too many inherent problems and risks. Will my house be warm enough (my insulation is “average”)? where would I put a hot water cylinder (we live in a bungalow with the loft converted), is it even any cheaper to run? Can I get parts if something breaks? Can I trust the installer? Is a new technology about to make it all defunct?

All things equal it seems the only argument FOR a heat pump is making a contribution to reducing carbon. So, am I prepared to risk a fundamental, visceral reduction in my comfort at home every single day? For what would be a vanishingly small difference to the worlds carbon footprint…

How can I justify it?

"Gas boilers-they are literally perfect" is a quote from this video. That's why our government in UK want to phase them out. Our gov are Green Cultists. Too thick to even realise we need more CO2, not less. Or maybe there is an even more insidious agenda?

Several (perhaps many) of our MP's in the UK had shares in Pfizer, Moderna etc. I wonder how many have shares in Heat Pump manufacturers and installers? Quite a few I suspect.

I only found SB today through the RAAC video and am now here after watching part 1 of this conversation on SB and I love it. I don't own a house, I have never thought about heat pumps before now I've watch 90 minutes all about the heating industry and I'm hooked! Great work to both of these channels for sitting down and having this conversation, love it.

The more is listen to Roger the more I like and agree with him..

The debate was the way rational disagreement should always be handled. However Heat Geek has drank the cool aid regarding man made climate change, Co2 is the gas of life , the more in the atmosphere the more lush and green the world is and of course more lovely oxygen for us to breath. The planet has been much much hotter in the past and much much colder and it goes in cycles between the both long before mankind was ever on the planet. Soooo much money is being made by the elites in carbon trading etc and it's all a con to get you to accept living in poverty in an open air concentration camp called a 15 minute city where eventually you won't be able to leave without permission and if you try your electric car will be turned off remotely , you'll be fed insects and GMO veggies covered in toxic pesticides. Instead of listening to people with a vested interest look at the data yourself , not the fudged stuff from the U.N. I love the environment and we should protect it and not pollute it but the climate change stuff is nonsense.

I remember when we pushed everyone away from coal fire’s because gas was almost free and instant heat. The with coal dead gas prices went up like a rocket. It’s all pish and coal or gas or oil or heat pumps should be able to be chosen by the customer 🤷🏼‍♂️

Are gas boilers a problem? Yes. Are heat pumps the answer? No.
Are petrol cars a problem? Yes. Are electric cars the answer? Definitely not!
They tried to persuade me to use public transport - great idea, except it's crap - it's privatised, run for profit, and therefore unreliable, and often non existant, so you NEED a car - re-nationalise and subsidise all trains and buses!
Covering the landscape with wind turbines isn't the answer either - we've got thousands of miles of tidal coastline avaiable for reliable and hidden generation - wind turbine companies must have some corrupt influence, IMHO, if the governement think that's the answer.
BUT, while China continues as it is, which it will, the best we can do is only re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic so it sinks a bit slower...

A very decent and honest debate on the pros and cons of heat systems , really enjoyed it . Bottom line is what you can afford is what you get . And in todays financially strapped home owners , that will be extremely hard .

Or we could rig the meter.

Very interesting debate. My first conclusion is that the country would be so much better off If there were people like Roger running it. You don't need letters before or after your name, common sense, patience and the ability to listen.👍

Fascinating discussion. And this is why I’ve opted for a new boiler rather than going down the heat pump route. Over a month just for a surveyor to come out. At least 5 months until an installation (and prob delayed again). Huge upheaval and changes to the home. Lack of service engineers and potential problem with parts. I’m sticking with a good old reliable brand new Worcester Bosch boiler for the next 15+ years.

Interesting debate. Whether folk can afford to change, without grants is irrelevant. On retrofit properties, you are looking at the difference between a typical £2.5K boiler swap versus £15K for a heat pump system plus potentially upgrading insulation and resizing radiators to get the required SCOP(probably another £4-£5000. ) This is at a time when electricity pricing is going through the roof. Unfortunately, the grant system supports businesses more than it supports individuals, as the price of systems gets jacked up to grab a big chunk of the grant. Just look at the FIT tarrif scheme that was available for Solar PV. The minute it ceased the instal price of Solar PV systems halved. (This was a function of both manufacturing components 'margin' and installer 'margin', which was obviously inflated to take advantage.) The British public are going to be bludgeoned into these changes by force, not choice, for a 'minute' difference in global emmissions.

Co2 is food for plants !!!
Co2 is food for plants !!!
Co2 is food for trees !!!
Co2 is food for trees !!!

Nuclear !

Roger has some crap work on his channel. Really needs to stop pretending he knows everything about everything.

'Gets a bit heated' doh! lol

Unfortunately means testing is a dirty word, governments hate it because they see it as costing votes.

So is plastic it not good for heat pumps then what pipe should I lay for heating floor

Why is gas dirty? It is not! Just water and co2 when burnt. Just like our breath

I just watched this and one thing I noted was roger saying making ev’s will produce allot of carbon in the Steele making process for the car which I’m guessing is true but nothing about the actual savings once you own an EV the fuel and car cost savings are amazing I’m surprised car company’s don’t push this more than the low carbon side of things as we all know most people would be interested in this.

Hang on, you don’t do service? 😮

So heat pumps are more expensive to buy and run, not particularly flexible and generally don't provide as much heat
Sign me up!

I am a member of public but not a plumber and wince at the amount we are spending to heat a house built in 1990 with gas! A neighbour has installed a heat pump but went back to using his gas boiler as it was costing him more to run the heat pump. I suspect it wasn't designed properly for a property with microbore pipes. If I could get an assurance my heating costs would be no higher with a heat pump I would go ahead, solely to help cut carbon emmisions for our children and grandchildren. I'm hoping to persuade our daughter to switch from gas to a heat pump and, if succesfull, will be paying Heat Geek to survey their house. I'm really impressed with their knowledge and ability to explain technical things in a way I can understand. Keep up the great work!

This is great, I’m having these same conversations day after day.

Carbon tax would be a scam just like climate change

Lovely bloke but he’s holding on tight to 1997 and is kicking and screaming into the new age😂 Attitude is a big part of accepting and helping to push future technologies

He is correct and it is also true in America lobbyists a root of all evil well except for bankers and well of course except for Trump

Both Adam and Roger are doing an amazing job of explaining key issues related to our journey to net zero in our heating systems.

We will all be much happier if we at least try to solve the problem of climate change. If China and others don't play ball and the worst climate scenarios happen, at least we know in our hearts that we've tried. If there are a few bad heat pump installations due to the speed we must move, that's an acceptable price to pay for real progress.

The one thing you didnt talk about in this video is scaleability.. in order for manufacturers to invest in production there needs to be a large market.. thats the primary purpose of the grant scheme..

If the government are backing it, it's probably shite. Have we not learned anything over the years.

That said I am looking at a heat pump, but only because of the financial side of things, if its cheaper to run and easier to maintain than a gas boiler then I'll do it. I don't agree with the need to cut carbon emissions (its bollocks, rather than cutting down more tress than we are planting change that). The UK won't make a noticeable change globally, just look at what China are pumping out! When they change their ways then there might be an argument to look at our emission output.

Electric cars ar the way forward. No they aren't. Its takes around 180k miles in an electric car for it to be as carbon "neutral" "efficient" as a diesel one. How many car reach 180k miles nowadays in this disposable culture?

Gas boilers Release Carbon they don't create it (11m)

Roger needs to learn about life cycle emissions analysis. He keeps getting caught up in the short term details instead of long term decarbonization strategy. Referring to his rant about the embodied carbon in the steel used to make an electric vehicle.

Anything that "creates" heat will use energy. With 100% efficiency, 1 unit of energy will create 1 unit of heat at the very best. Heat pumps don't create heat, they "move" heat (from outdoors to indoors, or the other way around it it's aircon), so one unit of energy can move 5 units of heat or more. This make it very efficient and cheap to run. So the answer is more investment in heat pump tech.

Wouldn’t have put Skill Builder down as a rabid lefty recognising governmental lobbying and privatisation as the key issues in messing up energy policy ! Nationalise energy, mass upgrade program for all buildings that generates huge employment that is decently paid, massively upgrades housing stock for the next few generations and massively reduces carbon emissions.

I think a really important was half made and yet not finished at the end, about papers printing horror stories about heat pumps. Heat pumps, along with electric cars and being vegetarian are wonderful culture war issues for the predominantly right wing British media. Heat pumps themselves have become politicised as opposed to just being seen as another way of heating a space. They've mostly come from Asia and hence there could be an anti-Eastern agenda behind it, the Chinese Commies and their heat pumps etc. This politicisation means that right wing journalists view them instantly as a thing to scorn, or have an opinion on as opposed to doing genuine research and being straight with the public about what they actually are.

Heat Pumps do one of the most important things that could be done in a major energy transition, they FORCE the existence of efficient homes so that the heating system itself can be efficient and use less energy for just topping up an already warmed house, and that is ONLY a positive thing. No one ever said "No, I prefer a really leaky wasteful house and emptying my bank account in the energy providers bank account". If every house can just by insulation, decent windows and a well built tight envelope conserve the majority of the heat that it generates, then it will equally benefit the next generation that moves in who'll use less energy than the previous generation, keep more oil and gas in the ground, keep more Kw/h in the turbines for something that actually counts just by building stuff WELL. Heat Pumps don't allow for crappy builds and that is actually wonderful.

Next thing is to make insulating MOST homes a national project done at virtually NO cost to the homeowner as it could be seen as a major efficiency project for reducing electrical and energy use as we rapidly transition to a low carbon society. It could generate loads of well skilled jobs in multiple areas, from heating engineers and techs, to insulation specialists, architects, fitters, carpenters, plumbers etc.

Whats your opinion on heat pumps being combined with thermaskirt ?