Christianity & Illegal Immigration DEEP DIVE w/ Sergio Gonzalez & Lloyd Barba | The New Evangelicals

Immigration is what has made America great. I don't see how that has changed.

Yeah, Stockton, California!

Immigration is not the same as illegal immigration. You need to make that distinction. I’m the offspring of immigration. My family immigrated. My wife’s family immigrated. But legally. They waited YEARS. Illegal immigration is the problem. Not asylum seekers, not legal
Immigrants. It’s the people jumping the line. It’s not fair.

Do you believe in nations? In countries that have physical, geographical borders? If you do believe in nations, why don't you believe that nations have the right to determine who gets to liive in their country?

And Tim! Get a fact checker!! Please!!🙏🏻

In her pride and wealth, America exalts herself as the greatest nation in the world. But when the Lord sends the poor and the outcasts to her, many of them are treated unjustly or demonized. The land and everything in it belongs to the Lord. Babylon will fall.

That fact that Loyd leads off with “Latinx” is quite telling. It works in the ivory towers of academia, doesn’t work anywhere else. I keep trying to figure out how to even say the word in Spanish...

I’d love to hear these two wrestle with Cesar Chavez’s and UFW's deep hostility towards illegal immigration and his loud support of deportations, specifically because he was concerned that undocumented migrants were being intentionally used to break up unions and hamstring worker bargaining power, as well as their concern of the exploitation of undocumented migrant workers.

Should we throw Cesar Chavez into the white supremacy bucket too?

Also, the US consistently takes in the most international immigrants and refugees of any country in the world by a huge margin. In fact, the US takes in more international immigrants than the next four countries COMBINED. The position that the US is somehow uniquely cruel and unjust regarding our openness to immigration has me asking one simple question, "compared to what?"

At around 52 minutes, they say it's not feasible to deport that many people because "people have the right to court cases before they are detained and deported." Republicans are already trying to pass laws that bypass court for deportation. He also mentioned "capacity" problems and that it's against the law to use the National Guard to round up immigrants. Are we forgetting that the Supreme Court has already declared that orders given by the president are lawful if given in a presidential capacity? All of his points assume a vacuum and assume Trump follows the law as its written, and not as he wants it to be, backed by the Supreme Court.

Thank you, Tim, for this fantastic conversation! Please bring them back! I agree 100% with the discussion of the premise of 'if they only come here legally, everything would be fine,' Yes, people who have not experienced the process of going to the US legally have no idea of how lenghty, complex, and expensive it is. I was an H1-B visa holder for the allowed 6 legal years. First of all, it took my former employer over 6 months to get the visa processed. In addition, every year I had to go back to my country, go to a US embassy to get the visa renewed. I experienced so much stress going through that process....wondering and praying that the visa would be renewed. So those who think - in ignorance - that getting into the US legally is easy and an every day occurrence, I'd urge them to educate themselves.

We need a complete overhaul in regards to immigration. There is a reason why there hasnt been a change. Undocumented immigrants due pay taxes are not entitled to any benefits, and many companies utilize cheap labor. Policitical parties and people are using undocumented immigrants as a scap goat to unify citizens under false pretenses. IF jesus were to come back , do you think he would be welcomed here? He was a poor brown man with socialist ideals....

Podcast name is Sanctuary: on the border between church and state

1. Indigenous genocide
2. African enslavement
3. Chinese Exclusion
4. Jim Crow
5. Japanese Internment
6. Haitian Internment
7. Now MAGA immigration hate

This what Europeans do in America. When they feel their comfort or power is threatened, their xenophobia is turned from simmer to boil.

What a great talk

Definitely agree…. If your politics or religion is fueled by hate, it’s time to change.

Great show guys.

I heard a Latino Evangelical pastor who was convinced that Trump would only deport violent criminals. I think all three of you would agree Trump would deport all immigrants if he could. There are Latinos who are convinced their families would never be deported.

So I’m really glad I found your channel. I consider myself a lapsed catholic and I went to a catholic school and I learnt the basics of the bible but I look over at America. I’m English and I see all these Christians supporting Trump, supporting extreme gun rights, pro life but anti children and I just don’t get it. It’s nice to see I’m not alone.

Close the borders until every illegal is deported. Make it illegal to employ illegals. Deny social services to anyone who is in the US illegally.

Friendship Fields was one of my favorite movies as a little girl and I've never spoken to anyone else who's seen it! I got so excited when you mentioned it 😂

Excellent info here.

I have to admit I was a bit triggered by the mention of Marquette University. I became a Catholic as a student at Marquette in 1987 - I went through RCIA and was baptized by a Jesuit in Gesu Church at a time when I was active in the Catholic Worker house in Milwaukee. I've since realized becoming Catholic was a terrible mistake. I believe Dr. Gonzalez's reference to "human dignity" as the basis of Catholic social teaching has to be seen as a mixed message. It's very common to use this kind of language within Catholicism. On one hand it can be shape the kind of excellent work discussed in this interview; on the other hand it is also often, and officially, used as a cover for misogyny, homophobia, and transphobia in Catholic teaching and practice. Plus it's the basis for sexual shaming of everyone, including straight people. In addition there are many in the Church who even try to justify capitalism on this basis. I'm not jumping to conclusions about Dr. Gonzalez, but I also can't help hesitating when I hear a Catholic talk about "human dignity" without being crystal clear about what they intend with that phrase.

Keep speaking young men of faith who work to love your neighbor! I am a senior but my white parents raised us in a diverse neighborhood and church, before we knew what diversity meant. One of my young friends said our humble church just “did the gospel” and so did my humble parents. As a result, they raised three daughters who believe all people are created in Gods image and are precious in His sight. I graduated in the 60s. We tried to raise our sons in the same way! Prayers that we will say fewer words and grasp the simplicity of Jesus’ words….

It's Liberation Theology for the 21st Century

Note the irony. Christian missionaries are "illegal immigrants" to foreign countries.

Thank you for addressing this! Grew up in rural midwestern white evangelical context and have been living in El Salvador for over a decade. Two of our kids and are grandson are Salvadoran.

I always find so weird the fact that people in the USA are so unaware about their country’s intervention and destabilization of Latin American countries and their interference in our governments during the past century. It is a well known fact among all other American countries below the USA that this took place. We all know how the imperialist and “anti-communist” mindset in the USA had deep and terrible implications in the rest of the continent. This is no secret information. It is well known historical fact.

Hitler did not have the military force or police to do what he did either. The S.S. was not part of Germany’s military. It was independent militia that he gave legitimacy to. So while it is not feasible to do some of these things with the current ICE and military , American does not lack armed militia that can be given legitimacy and co opted to do the mass deportations and like Germany it’s also possible to make general everyday people very scared to not turn in their neighbors to these groups

Marquette! I dropped out of that school!

Sergio! Dude, mad props to your Mom.

I loved Sergio and Lloyd so much.

We are the baddies.

Why would you not want open borders though? Borders are random lines somebody made up, they shouldn’t control the real actions of people who actually exist. We should have freedom of movement. We shouldn’t need to be fleeing war to be allowed to move wherever we want to move.

Yes, immigration is a HOT topic with very mixed views. As 'Christians' one should welcome the poor, the lost, the lonely the disenfranchised....for unto the least of these" etc. BUT, to what degree when there are those who would exploit our generosity and kill our innocents?

I wanna add… as far as becoming a legal immigrant, Trump made it practically impossible because when your on “the list” to get your green card you have this waiting period that tells you how long by seeing how close you are to being called in for the appt for your green card when trump was president that line came to a complete standstill (not moving whatsoever) when Biden came into office “the waiting line” started moving again. I know this from experience. Trump was putting a stop for immigrants to legally get their green card.

If you don't want them here quit going to their countries and interfering in their government Let them side with China to help themselves

Love this topic! I didn't learn about the Sanctuary Movement until I researched it for my Latin American history podcast and also I always appreciate acknowledgment/discussion about US intervention in Latin America causing displacement. Great episode!

To add to the conversation from a Euro view. I hypothetically have heard about several Europeans coming to the US to work on tourist visas for short term projects, because otherwise they have to go through the same process and pay the same fee as if they were moving here, despite only needing to be brought in for maybe a week or most. Yet they're never the one's complained about. There was a German family my very conservative family was lobbying for refugee status because they weren't allowed to homeschool their children in Germany. It's not the illegal immigration and refugees, that they have a problem with, it's the color of the people doing these things. There are so many things the US could do to make illegal immigration and work less prevalent, but instead they make it more difficult, because like they said, it benefits the wealthy to have access to a non union, non minimum wage working population. There was a time when workers would cross the border to harvest in the US and then return home, getting rid of these short term visas results in more people staying here. I'd just challenge that if you have a knee jerk reaction to this convo, really sit with that feeling and dig into why you do. What is it about what they said that makes you uncomfortable and is it truly a Christian perspective that you're having and is limiting immigration really the answer?

I found this so informative, as I find most of your content incredibly informative. Always looking forward to who and what you platform next!

I love this topic. I was a seminarian and young pastor during these early years and remember fondly supporting churches providing sanctuary and even visited Nicaragua. I was wondering where this movement is today and will be looking to reconnect. Thanks TNE